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Old 05-12-2012, 11:14 PM   #1
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Very concerned about the job my roofer is doing


Hi all,

I'm looking for professional advice on whether my roofer is doing this right. I've posted a host of photos here:

https://plus.google.com/photos/11201...CPTxn8_Ovb-0QA

What concerns me is this:



Based on instructions I've read such as these:
http://www.ehow.com/how_12149430_lay...-hip-roof.html

And my experience working with a contractor friend at my old house, I don't think this is right. The felt is cut up both sides, leaving no protection over the hips. This just seems wrong!

I'm planning on talking to my roofer before he continues with the roof on Monday, but would an inspector OK this? What is the best course of action?

Thanks!

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Old 05-12-2012, 11:40 PM   #2
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Very concerned about the job my roofer is doing


The paper should have been folded over on both sides, so as to completly cover the hip.
I personaly also run another layer of paper over the whole hip from top to bottom.

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Old 05-13-2012, 09:39 AM   #3
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Very concerned about the job my roofer is doing


Am I seeing something incorrect or is that pic upside down? Isn't the paper lapped upside down?

Anyhow, I wouldn't worry about the hips. There will be about 4 layers of shingles on the hips. When was the last time you heard about a hip leaking? As long as the ridge is applied correctly, there will be no problems.
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:45 AM   #4
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Very concerned about the job my roofer is doing


Yes I have seen where a leaking hip has leaked and it also rotted out the rafter.
I also run that first row of shingles past the hip, not cut it like the one in the picture.
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:38 AM   #5
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Very concerned about the job my roofer is doing


Underlayment is not your roof. It's irrelevant whether it's cut flush or lapped. As long as the shingles and hip cap are installed correctly it should be fine. I always lap the felt over also, but that is just so it's buttoned up tight for the dry-in. Once the roof is on I'm sure the overlap gets cut anyways while cutting the hip shingles. That actually looks like some neat work.

Looking at all your photos, he seems to be doing a pretty damn good job for a south-paw.

MJW, it does kinda look backwards but I think it's the edge curling.

Last edited by OldNBroken; 05-13-2012 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:53 AM   #6
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Very concerned about the job my roofer is doing


Some people put their pants on left leg first, some do right leg first. Either way is just fine.
15-20 years ago there was no felt in the field, much less the hips, and ALL those hips didn't leak.

Your roofer has knowledge and experience behind him whereas you have ehow.com.
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Old 05-13-2012, 01:15 PM   #7
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Very concerned about the job my roofer is doing


Two things in there I don't like doing but are still acceptable: Bleeder in the valley and 15# single-layer in the field. Even with that, it looks like you have a roofer who cares about neatness and quality.
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:26 PM   #8
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Very concerned about the job my roofer is doing


I see nothing to be alarmed about.Maybe run the felt closer to the wall.

Was this picture taken at the end of the day when he left ?? I would be wide awake all night thinking about your roof.A tarp is a ceiling saver.

I am not a fan of bleeders in an open valley with metal.The offsets look nice as well as nail pattern.

Other than being a left handed roofer I see nothing wrong.

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Old 05-14-2012, 12:59 PM   #9
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I appreciate everyone looking at this.

The bad news:

Code here in CA / LA County, requires two layers (half lap?) of 15lb felt. As it is, this roof is not to code. The inspector is aware of this and is enforcing the code. What's done must be removed, the underlayment must be done in two layers, and it will be lapped over the hips.

Question:

Is it possible to reuse any of the shingles? My experience is that they're two delicate to remove without destroying them, and you'd never get the nails back in the right place / sealed. However, I really feel for this guy - I recognize my standards and insistence on checking everything were probably unexpected. However, I just want it done right.

My logic regarding the hip overlap:

Looking at the hips that have been completed, I can stick my pinky under the cap and feel the groove between the shingles. Yes, it's sort-of up-hill a bit, but only slightly, because it's across the grade of the roof. If I can do that, water will find its way in there too. We live on a hill with substantial wind exposure, and a hard rain would splash water under there too. I can believe that we might never have enough water get in there to drip down to the ceiling as an observable leak, but the bottom line is that the rafters need to stay dry, and I don't believe this requirement will be met.

The good:

As for the rest of his work, I'm happy with it. It's really reassuring to have the opinions here. Looking at the roofing that's been done, it certainly looks clean. Moreover he's also been very conscientious in working with me to find a way to ensure I'm happy with the roof, and keeping the work progressing. He's agreed to do the detatched garage with a half-lap and running the paper over the hips.

And finally:

With all due respect, bcdemon, yes, I have eHow, but I also have the 2010 California Residential Code, manufacturer's installation instructions, the city inspector, some exposure to roofing (I helped reroof my last house with a licensed & bonded contractor), and just plain common sense. My current roofer's experience is valuable, and by the comments here, I think that is shown in these pictures of his work. Also by the consensus expressed in the comments here, not overlapping the hips is bad practice. It would be quite an experienced roofer who had torn off a good sample of his own roofs. In the end, I'm the one who has to sleep under this roof, and I require the security of knowing that the job has been done to a high standard.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:09 PM   #10
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Very concerned about the job my roofer is doing


Quote:
Originally Posted by bcdemon View Post
Some people put their pants on left leg first, some do right leg first. Either way is just fine.
15-20 years ago there was no felt in the field, much less the hips, and ALL those hips didn't leak.

Your roofer has knowledge and experience behind him whereas you have ehow.com.
In most cases, I'd prefer the info from ehow. Can't tell you how many times I've been told by contractors that the manufacturer doesn't know what they're doing and they have been putting roofs on for 30 years and KNOW how to install them.

Most contractors don't see the roof again but I have to figure out how they screwed them up after they start leaking a few years later.
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:21 PM   #11
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Very concerned about the job my roofer is doing


Quote:
Originally Posted by gwa View Post
In most cases, I'd prefer the info from ehow. Can't tell you how many times I've been told by contractors that the manufacturer doesn't know what they're doing and they have been putting roofs on for 30 years and KNOW how to install them.

Most contractors don't see the roof again but I have to figure out how they screwed them up after they start leaking a few years later.
You can honestly say that you have witnessed a leaky roof from a 30 year veteran roofer?

Roofmaster, how do you come up with "left handed roofer"?


The job looks very neat to me. Not quite sure how a local roofer wouldn't know the minimum code in their area...
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:25 PM   #12
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Very concerned about the job my roofer is doing


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Yes I have seen where a leaking hip has leaked and it also rotted out the rafter.
I also run that first row of shingles past the hip, not cut it like the one in the picture.
If there was a leak, 15 lb paper wouldn't keep it out very long, and whoever has a leak on a properly installed hip (even with no paper) shouldn't be doing any work on anyone's house, except maybe their dog's.

BTW, if it rotted out a rafter, someone waited WAY too long to make a service call.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:16 PM   #13
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Very concerned about the job my roofer is doing


He is saving expensive 15 lb paper.

Its underlayment, why not roll it over the hip..i think its ok but i dont allow on our jobs. Actually none of crews do this way so its never an issue.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:45 PM   #14
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Very concerned about the job my roofer is doing


I have seen it done both ways as long as the cap shingles are correctly installed you should be fine. You should ask your contractor about the method but don't be the "I found this on the internet" guy. You hired the contractor for a reason and if he has been around for a while then he has done it before. I never minded when clients would question methods. I knew our crews were doing it right and I was proud of the work. It was only when we were confronted with people who think they knew more then my crew.
If you are not comfortable with his response you can ask him to do it a different way.
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:21 PM   #15
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Very concerned about the job my roofer is doing


MJW, one picture shows the field installation going right to left, indicating a southpaw is installing it.

It's a shame such an inexpensive mistake is costing him a lot but I guess he should have known local code. Hope he didn't have too much installed.

As far as the hips go, I still see many roofs I have installed years ago. Have never had issue with hips leaking. I can guarantee you my felt, although lapped over during the dry-in, got at least sliced up on installation of the shingles. Once again, your underlayment is not your waterproofing. It is irrelevant in keeping the weather out on a properly installed roof.

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