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Old 04-08-2014, 07:26 PM   #16
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Valley repair on S tile roof.


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Originally Posted by gitmoray View Post
Tinner666, your comments and ideas are on the mark and very appreciated. Please dumb down some of the more technical terms for me, you have a rookie Harry Homeowner on this side
I'm trying, but a recent fall tore a shoulder up and I can't have surgery for a few more months, so the pain is making it hard to concentrate on how to word my answers. Sorry about that. It's ruinng my concentration.

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Old 04-08-2014, 07:47 PM   #17
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Valley repair on S tile roof.


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Originally Posted by gitmoray View Post
Sorry for asking such a dumb question. In all the books that I have looked at, they talk about repairing a valley as "stripping it down to the bare wood, replacing the rotted wood, then laying down a membrane such as I&W and then the Valley metal, but what about the intersection between the 36 inch membrane and the 30# or 90# underlayment on the rest of the roof. Do I tuck the I&W edges under the underlayment, or do I go over it with the I&W.

This is probably too "elementary school" for the books to go into in detail, but it seems to me there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. I appreciate any feedback here.
Buy a roll of 30# to go with the I&W shield. Open up as much as you need on both sides, about 24". Cut the felt about 20" from the center on each side. After any work is done, put the I&W in one of two ways. Cut 36" strips off and lay them in separately with the selvage edge up, or, alternatively, cut 6' long sections and lay them in doing one side, then the other.
After you get to the top, (or this can be done as you go, but it's awkward), split the 30# down the center, then cut the halves into 3' to 6' sections, or whatever you think is best for you, longer, or shorter.
Go to the bottom and start over with the 18" 30# felt. I try to get 9" under the old felt, and the same over the I&W. Your mileage may vary. i know mine does, so I take what I can get and quit fighting it before tearing the old to pieces.

VERY IMPORTANT NOTE!
When laying the I&W, start from either side. Gently press in one full side, an dtight into the bottom before pressing in the other side. Letting it soften too much may let it stretch across the valley raising the metal and eventually tearing the material. I've seen others install it and whatever they did wrong, it stretched across the valley in a straight line from edge ot I&W to edge of I&W!
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:10 PM   #18
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Valley repair on S tile roof.


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You say that you do not see the valleys mortared in, and I see a lot of those down here. What do you guys do in California? just leave the tile edges open?
Yes they are left open in the valleys.

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Can you send a pic of the typical california S tile valley edge finish?
The valley will have a metal W valley and the tiles intersecting the valley are left open...not mortared in like yours. Basically just like your but no mortar and there would be a metal W valley in there.

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I will attempt to use 8 mil aluminum foil tape
Probably not as permanent a solution as you will want. I would use Tinners method it is a long term solution. Its fixable, but you probably need to plan for a new roof. This will give the time you need to get the funds though.

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These are some of the ones where the tile nail holes are visible
Between the corners indicated in my drawing and the exposed nail holes I think Tinners plan is really the best solution next to a new roof. You will need a decent coil of colored alum + time and patience to get it right. Seepage is a leak, the nail holes need to be covered, not really optional.
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:32 PM   #19
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Valley repair on S tile roof.


Tinner and Andy, Very grateful for you gents taking time out to help a rookie who has no alternative but to grow a backbone and face a job that feels like lion taming with a candy cane right now. I know that this will work out OK, and when I am done, I will kick myself for having worried about this so much. I tend to do this in many DIY things that I do, and later I kind of laugh about it. In this case I will go into this job with a lot more confidence than usual, and it is in no small part for the great road map that you gents have been so kind to draw out for me.

Our weather will be unsettled for a couple of days, so I will go into radio silence and fight my way through my and my kids' tax returns, but hopefully by the weekend the rain will stop and the wind will die down, and I'll start tearing into the wall of mortar. I will definitely follow Andy's lead on this and leave the valley edges open.

I will update this thread as I make some progress, and yes Andy, once I get it nice and dry, then I will not be afraid to go up there and take a pressure washer to it.

Tinner, I hope your operation works out well and the pain stops. I lived about 6 weeks with constant pain when I was much younger. It is something that I don't wish on my worst enemy.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:41 PM   #20
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Valley repair on S tile roof.


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I will definitely follow Andy's lead on this and leave the valley edges open.
While I was looking for installation details I ran across something that said they need to be mortared in. I will try and find the source and post it...has to do with wind uplift I am sure. Looks like for your location they require it to be filled.
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:50 AM   #21
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Valley repair on S tile roof.


Hi Andy, since you ran across some info on the need to mortar, I'll bounce this off some local roofers and see what kind of feedback I get. if I hear they need to be mortared in, then I'll work that into my plans for post repair completion.

If it is not required by code, I will definitely try to avoid mortaring, as that adds cost, complexity, time and backbreaking work, not to mention the fact that it brings me right back to my fear that water would accumulate behind the mortar wall. Assuming that there is a need for mortar, then this is not a water containment issue, but rather a wind containment issue. In that case, I will go with my alternate idea for drainage, which would be to create channels in the mortar that drain diagonally to the valley water flow. I should be able to do that with short pieces of rigid plastic tubing that I can then cut flush with the mortar wall to prevent dams.

Many thanks again!
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Old 04-10-2014, 06:00 PM   #22
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Valley repair on S tile roof.


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If it is not required by code, I will definitely try to avoid mortaring, as that adds cost, complexity, time and backbreaking work, not to mention the fact that it brings me right back to my fear that water would accumulate behind the mortar wall. Assuming that there is a need for mortar, then this is not a water containment issue, but rather a wind containment issue. In that case, I will go with my alternate idea for drainage, which would be to create channels in the mortar that drain diagonally to the valley water flow. I should be able to do that with short pieces of rigid plastic tubing that I can then cut flush with the mortar wall to prevent dams.

Many thanks again!
The only way to stop the water is to insert the flashing detail Tinner mentioned and I show in my drawing. In order for the tubing idea to work you would need to do far more work than what we are proposing. The tubing idea could work with great effort but that would be like driving 100 miles just to put gas in your car...there are faster more effective ways to gas up.

Adding the flashing in every course should eliminate all the leaking. If by some chance it is still leaking after the flashings installed, then and only then would I tackle the valley project because it is a lot of work.
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Old 04-19-2014, 12:47 AM   #23
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Valley repair on S tile roof.


Hope you all see this post. Last Saturday we had 1/2 day of sunshine, so I went up and started opening up the very top of the valley. I found the folllowing:

1- The tile nail holes are not a problem, as they are not nailed in, and the holes don't go through totally )see attached pictures of top side / underside of tile).
2- The tiles are actually installed using these big gobs of mortar, so they basically sit on mortar dollops and that keeps them in place! this will make the removal of valley tiles a major job.

*** When I removed the top tiles, I looked for the tar paper underneath to see how easily I could cut it for removal of a 24 inch swath on each side of the valley. What I found was this baked, very thick cracker like material which may have been torched on to the plywood. My best guess is that the only way I will be able to cut the 24 inch swaths will be to torch the material and then make the cuts when soft. if this is the case, the job just got doubly complicated. Appreciate someone setting me straight on this ***

No great hurry on replies. Given that this job may take at least a couple of days with the roof open, I will need to wait until we can be assured of a good stretch of dry days, which may not happen again until next winter.

What I may do in the mean time is to go with Tinner's suggestions for closisng the tile row gaps with strips of flashing and hopefully that will minimize the seepage until I can get lots of dry weather to open the valley.

Many thanks in advance for any suggestions on dealing with the brittle old tar paper.
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Valley repair on S tile roof.-tile-top.jpg   Valley repair on S tile roof.-tile-logo.jpg  

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