Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Roofing/Siding

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-21-2012, 08:10 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 47
Share |
Default

trouble at scupper (GAF Liberty peel-n-stick)


We’ve just DIY-ed a 2-ply Liberty peel-n-stick on our 1-story 1-car detached garage roof recently and its failing where we had assumed was always going to be its weakest point, the connection to the corner scupper at the lowest point on the roof. We did pay a lot of attention to it, but given you start with the lowest point in laying down this system, it also took a lot of our learning curve out on it... In retrospect, given all our parapets, am not sure this was the right system for our situation (but that is a different discussion.) We had a lot of trouble with it despite being handy, pouring over all the GAF details. Our old existing brick parapets were not pristinely smooth and it made counter flashing with the peel-n-stick sheets very difficult despite having primed every surface imaginable.

Anyways this post is about how to fix the scupper area which is leaking. I wonder if there is a way to fix it say with painting on a lot of layers of something... OR cutting away all the layers in that area and redoing it via patch somehow…

Ideally I would like to get some return for the amount of money, time and effort put into it. I have a feeling if I call anyone else they won't know what to do with what's put down there and just want to tear everything off and put down a more traditional/typical roll-roofing. Any thoughts?

Sorry, I don't have a more finished picture of the scupper. This was obviously taken before we started laying down the Liberty stuff.



Last edited by smoochas; 07-21-2012 at 08:17 AM.
smoochas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2012, 02:12 PM   #2
Pro Slate Roofer
 
tinner666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 1,588
Default

trouble at scupper (GAF Liberty peel-n-stick)


Did you cut and fit a piece of SBS in place first? It has to be heat welded to work properly. Then, after cutting and fitting the scupper metal, and priming the bottom of it, heat the SBS on top, and the pan too, then set them into place. Prime the top of the metal then follow up with alternating layers of SBS to lock it all together. (Heat welded in place)!

tinner666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2012, 02:14 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Catawba, VA
Posts: 68
Default

trouble at scupper (GAF Liberty peel-n-stick)


This would be cumbersome to diagnose. Would like to see what it looks like now.

If everything else is okay, I would pull the scupper, fabricate a new one with a soldered faceplate, then flash this new scupper into the existing roof. Just folding the flanges around like that will always leave the corners open to problems. I would suggest installing a second one as well in case one gets clogged, if that is a possibility.
roofnron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2012, 09:08 PM   #4
Pro Slate Roofer
 
tinner666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 1,588
Default

trouble at scupper (GAF Liberty peel-n-stick)


BTW, my post was about cutting it out, and lapping under the existing. "cutting away all the layers in that area and redoing it via patch somehow…"

BTW, I think I'd leave the missing bricks out when you redo it. Run the metal and SBS up and over, span the opening with the coping.


Ron, generally speaking, DIY'er can't get field soldered items. And it's not likely they will get a shop to do it.
tinner666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 09:05 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Catawba, VA
Posts: 68
Default

trouble at scupper (GAF Liberty peel-n-stick)


Agreed tinner, but in this case it would be well worth the trouble to seek out a small metal shop/ roofer to have one made. Smoochas if you ask around, (maybe starting at the place you bought the materials), you could find a guy that would be happy to help and probably could get this for $75 or less. Especially if the guy has some copper or stainless left over laying around.

This system is suppose to work at detail areas with the flashing cement. You don't want to go piling up the materials around the scupper with the cement. You need to make the scupper area smooth as possible so water will drain out of it. Having a metal roof flange around the scupper to prime and tie a single piece of membrane to would be a permanent solution. This is all I was talking about.

Tinner, wouldn't a heat gun, like the one I know you are talking about, be out of the scope of a DIY'er as well.
roofnron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 04:41 PM   #6
Pro Slate Roofer
 
tinner666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 1,588
Default

trouble at scupper (GAF Liberty peel-n-stick)


"Tinner, wouldn't a heat gun, like the one I know you are talking about, be out of the scope of a DIY'er as well."

Possibly, but most DIY'ers get a Wagner for stripping paint. I know several roofers that do the same thing. I have done it when applying in cold weather, but I use a Sieverts myself.
tinner666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2012, 11:09 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 47
Default

trouble at scupper (GAF Liberty peel-n-stick)


Hi Guys, thank you both for taking the time to comment on my thread. I really really appreciate it! Last week, I needed to pay back the time I took off from work but am back to trying to fix this issue. It also doesn’t help that we’ve been having quite a lot of rain ever week!

Tinner,
Do you know if this system can even be patched? Maybe the patch needs heat and can no longer be "self-adhere?"

I definitely put a piece of base (SBS?) down first. But there was nothing in the instructions to use any sort of “heat” with this self-adhered system, Or else I would have! I do have a Milwaukee 11.6amp 570/1000degree heat gun, is that too weak? Or can I try to use a propane torch perhaps? The Milwaukee worked quite well when I was scraping the old flashing cement off of the scupper…

The thing was the GAF details did not show our exact condition – a scupper right at a 90-degree inside corner. The details for the self-adhered Liberty system are very few and when I called, they directed me to the other BUR details that actually do show quite a build up of layers at the scupper… hindsight, MISTAKE. The little high spot right in front of the scupper exit point is creating a small puddle/pond now…
So what we put together was a combo of these two details – given that it was a scupper and an inside corner. Just to give you a visual.





Hi Ron,
Wish I had posted this exact image of our scupper asking for advice before starting! You are right, the lack of an integral faceplate and those open corners formed by those fold back flanges are probably what is killing us right now. I would like to put a proper faceplate on that scupper. What gauge plate? The key is for the face plate to lay as flat as possible to all sides, right? The brick curbs, the dec, etc. ? I’m going to try to find a copper plate to solder on myself. Get some flux and I already have a regular propane torch AND a propane pencil mini-torch like this - http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31964KSSMYL.jpg
Which I assume one should be able to do the job?

This GAF liberty system, relies on a base-ply and a top cap-ply. I need to have one of each at minimum when it laps the scupper, correct?

Here are more recent pics (without the coping tiles.)







Last edited by smoochas; 07-29-2012 at 11:12 AM.
smoochas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2012, 07:45 PM   #8
Pro Slate Roofer
 
tinner666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 1,588
Default

trouble at scupper (GAF Liberty peel-n-stick)


I've never been able to lift that stuff and patch it. Three of us were aligning a piece and it went down wrong. Luckily, it was the 1st. or 2nd. course. We tore off what we could and then had to start over filling in where we ripped it out.
Are the brick back in above the scupper? Yes or no, I'd tear them back out.
See if any of the SBS will come out, or seperate between the sheets. Don't go crazy. A heat gun may help. Give it a try.

If not, try heating in the scupper first and scrapping the granules off. Try NOT to remove much asphalt. Just the bulk of the granules. I'm thinking of coming onto the roof about a foot. Then, up the walls to the top. Install a metal scupper if you can get one.
Assuming this idea works, if not, you'll weld a new 'U' shaped sheet in place. If that worked, you'll need to make two small cuts, one at the bottom of the cant, one at the top. Weld it to the walls, and deck, cant, etc. If all went well, weld footballs at eh apex of the two cuts.
Redo the walls to come down and cover the tops of the new SBS scupper.
I may have left out a few details because I'm going on a lot of assumptions of how this will work out.
It will make your low spot higher. It would be great if a large chunk is removed beforehand. If you make that work, you only need to modify and weld 6" laps onto the existing.

I can assure you that as you move along here, you'll attack if with Plan A and Probably end up getting to and using Plan X sooner than you expect!

Last edited by tinner666; 07-29-2012 at 07:48 PM.
tinner666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2012, 07:51 PM   #9
Pro Slate Roofer
 
tinner666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 1,588
Default

trouble at scupper (GAF Liberty peel-n-stick)


"Milwaukee 11.6amp 570/1000degree heat gun, is that too weak?" I have no idea. Try it on a piece of scrap. See if it will heat things enough to scrap off granules. Se if it will weld two pieces together. Try not to create much smoke. A trace is OK.
tinner666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2012, 08:26 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Catawba, VA
Posts: 68
Default

trouble at scupper (GAF Liberty peel-n-stick)


You could pull the existing scupper and use it to form your faceplate. Use can use a propane torch but I would use it on the ground, not on the roof. Get everything formed safely on the ground then slide it back in the hole. Then use primer and adhesive to set your modified patch around the scupper. You need to make it as smooth as possible.

16 oz copper would be fine, (i am assuming your existing is copper) but that is expensive if you had to buy a sheet for needing a small piece. I would think a helpful metal man in your area would have scraps in his shop. He would have the right iron and "flux" to do this where you wouldn't have to worry about it.

Problem now is the scupper is already pretty small and the more patching, the more water will sit in front of the scupper.

You could install a PVC roof drain at the lowest point where the water sits and let the scupper be a back up. PVC drains are inexpensive and easy to install and seal. Hardest part being getting the drain pipe through the wall.

roofnron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2012, 09:22 PM   #11
Pro Slate Roofer
 
tinner666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 1,588
Default

trouble at scupper (GAF Liberty peel-n-stick)


Thanks Roofnron. I did neglect to remind him about the primer. I bet there are other things I forgot too. Hope nothing important though!

tinner666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Peel and stick on painted concrete? polarzak Flooring 8 12-23-2011 01:13 PM
peel and stick vinyl wood planks - subfloor prep questions bonanz Flooring 11 12-07-2011 07:41 AM
Peel and Stick Veneer and Contact Cement GreggG Kitchen & Bath Remodeling 3 05-15-2011 01:45 PM
Re-Roofing: Okay to Re-Use Peel n Stick? GrillMouster Roofing/Siding 8 12-06-2009 01:55 PM
Peel and stick matching melkisadek Flooring 6 01-16-2008 07:52 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.