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Old 04-30-2007, 09:24 PM   #46
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Torch Down Instructions Needed - DIY


its funny these guys out there thinking torch-on is so easy.I would like to see them do a completely flat roof.one guy says you dont want to heat the material so much where you see a pool forming.well that pool where i come from means something ,something that only comes with experience.and heating the top of the roll and not the deck,what a joke.and what about a top-coat for that roof of yours the suns gonna eat that in a year.is that app?if it is that has been outdated in my parts for years.everyones a pro

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Old 05-01-2007, 08:08 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnk View Post
its funny these guys out there thinking torch-on is so easy.I would like to see them do a completely flat roof.one guy says you dont want to heat the material so much where you see a pool forming.well that pool where i come from means something ,something that only comes with experience.and heating the top of the roll and not the deck,what a joke.and what about a top-coat for that roof of yours the suns gonna eat that in a year.is that app?if it is that has been outdated in my parts for years.everyones a pro
I sort of agree with you. I'm a DIYer but not your average DIYer mind you. I have done three of these. Watched a pro do one first and also watched training videos from the manufacturer of the product I used. Its NOT simple and I would NEVER recommend it to someone who is an average DIYer. There is sort of a technique to it. Like you say, heating the top sheet on the roll. It almost unrolls itself! I have done both types, ones with granules and one you need to brush on a top, finish coat. I prefer the granules. Oh, and those rolls are HEAVY!
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Old 11-07-2007, 07:16 PM   #48
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good for you
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Old 11-10-2007, 10:04 PM   #49
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I know of 3 situations where professional roofers have burnt down buildings,just because you haven`t heard of it ,doesn`t mean it hasn`t happened---I would recommend using a self adhered system,certainteed,gaf,and polyglass all have excellent systems for this--I would hate to see the look on your face had something happened,and your insurance agent explained to you how you weren`t covered to use a torch to install anything on your home w/a torch,when you lack the necessary credentials,and necessary additional insurance--heck,a lot of roofers aren`t insured to do torchdown-it`s a special provision here in NY
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Old 03-22-2008, 09:37 AM   #50
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A lot of talk on torch down...If I have a flat, tar & gravel roof and need to re-surface it, what is the best option? What is the cheapest option? I live in an area that experienced moderate snow fall. Should that be considered? I also have NO desire to take on this project myself and burn my house to the ground.
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:13 AM   #51
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most flat systems require 1/4" per ft pitch(angle?) for drainage,and are not designed for ponding water,if you have pitch look at Certainteed flintlastic SA SYSTEM,OR GAF Liberty system,If very flat,Ib roof systems warrants their material for ponding water situations-but you need a certified pro for it
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Old 03-25-2008, 09:05 PM   #52
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Yea baby... IB is the way to go. We Have done the valley roofs (200 feet long inward pitched flat roofs) with it and when i see the owner of that roof, we usually drink a beer and talk about life. After 15 years of patching that roof, he finally forgot about it.

Torch Down Instructions Needed - DIY-image01.jpg

BTW, this goes to all courageous DIY-ers. I'm sure any one who actually burned some part or the entire house doing the ModBit torch down, will not come here to cry about it. They'll have more important things to do. So if you do decide to do-it-yourself, listen to the experienced fellas on this forum. Go with peel-n-stick or epdm. At least you won't burn the "home-sweet-home".
Also, there is nothing great about torch-down... it is a pretty crappy system that cannot take ponding water (well, most of the flat roof types can't), and usually leaks after 7-10 years anyway.

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Old 03-27-2008, 11:26 PM   #53
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How can you say mod-bit is a crappy system that cannot take ponding?It can last a hell of alot longer than 7-10 yrs if installed right.There are just more eco-friendly,safer systems out there.That is why alot of companies shy away from torch-on,let alone the cost of fire insurance.There are roofs in Europe that are over 40 yrs old with the same mod-bit roofs on them.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:01 AM   #54
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you should check mfgr`s specs John,they require 1/4" per ft. for modified bitumen---and as far as the 40 year old mod bitumen roofs in europe--could you provide a link to something factual,or are you referring to BUR,AROUND HERE WE STARTED DOING MOD BIT EARLY 80`S,AND IT WAS NEW TO MY KNOWLEDGE,but please enlighten me
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:05 AM   #55
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1/4" per ft. pitch is required by mod bit mfgr`s,where in europe?,what kind of mod bit?can you provide a link(mfgr`s name?),we started doing mod bit torchdown in early 80`s,not aware of it before then--You`re not referring to BUR are you ???
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:46 AM   #56
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Asphaltic products all need drainage.

Eternal ponding on mod bit will allow water permeation.

Polyurea will not allow water to migrate through, since it is a true vapor barrier.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:16 PM   #57
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I first installed a modified bitumen roof, from Koppers, called KMM, back in 1978. The next brand of modified I was then made aware of, was Derbi-Gum, then Braii by US Intec, then Tri-Ply. There were 212 different labeled brands at one time back in the 80's when I investigated them, but there were only 12 different manufacturing facilities making all of these different private labels for resale.

The Italians imported their technology here and one brand I was aware of in the early days was Nord Bitumi.
It is an asphalt petroleum based product and needs a proper slope for drainage for it to be a warranteed application.

Here, down below are some information about the history and introduction to the US, back in 1970.

Ed



From:
http://www.westamericanroofing.com/flat_roof.html
APP Modifieds: In order to create roofing grade asphalt, asphalt flux is air-blown at elevated temperatures which converts the flux to roofing grade asphalt. In the early 1970’s, the Italians, lacking the blowing equipment, were looking for a product that would convert asphalt flux into a usable roofing product. They discovered that if Atactic Polypropylene (APP) - a by-product of propylene polymerization - was added to asphalt then it gave the asphalt some plastic properties. They found that by adding about 30% of APP modifier, they could stretch the modified asphalt up to fifty percent of its original length before it would break. Next came the need to make it into a usable roll product. Some type of reinforcement would be needed. They looked into various reinforcement materials and decided on a polyester mat because polyester would accommodate the APP modified asphalt’s elongation properties whereas the more commonly used woven glass mats would not. The reinforcement material is dipped into the hot modified bitumen mix, then goes through a rolling cylinder, cooled, and then wound into a roll. APP membranes are applied using a torch. The back of the sheet has extra asphalt on it which, when heated, bonds to the substrate. This was especially convenient for the smaller, more cut up roofs because less room and equipment is needed on site to torch-apply a membrane than is necessary for application using hot bitumen.
SBS Modifieds: While APP was being looked into in southern Europe, northern Europe was experimenting with a different type of modifier called Styrene Butadiene Styrene (SBS). The French and Germans found that if they added 10%-15% of SBS rubber to asphalt, the asphalt’s characteristics changed to those of the rubber additive. They learned that they could stretch the SBS modified asphalt up to six times its original length and that, unlike the APP, it would return to its original size when allowed to relax. There are a wide range of reinforcements used in SBS roofing materials. These include fiberglass or polyester mats and scrims, or combinations of both. The fiberglass mats range in weight from 1.0 to 2.5 pounds per 100 square feet or around 50 to 125 grams per square meter. Polyester reinforcements range in weight from 3.5 to 5.0 pounds per 100 square feet or 170 to 250 grams per square meter. The type of reinforcement used depends on the material’s performance requirements. SBS membranes can be hot asphalt applied, torch applied, or cold process applied.

From:
http://www.3di.com/RnD/Files/Best%20...ear%20Roof.pdf
Modified Bitumen entered the United States marketplace
from Europe in 1970. It is a “built-up” system that takes
advantage of manufactured bitumenous sheets in lieu of
older felt technology. As the term “modified” implies, the
composition of the bitumen is changed by the
introduction of polymerized modifiers. The membrane
itself is constructed primarily with the polymerized
bitumen and reinforced with fabric plies of polyester,
fiberglass or a combination of both. Because the
membrane is factory produced rather than field applied,
the physical properties of the plies are consistent in
quality and maintain a uniform thickness. The
consistency and uniformity of the sheet results in a
membrane with greater stability and flexibility than found
in laminated felt systems.
Like built-up systems, modified bitumen can be installed
as a one, two or three-ply system with a cap sheet
acting as the final surface ply. The factory produced cap
sheet provides a membrane with high tensile strength,
low temperature flexibility and greater puncture
resistance than found in traditional built-up systems.

Last edited by Ed the Roofer; 03-28-2008 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:33 PM   #58
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I think Ed explained it in detail where mod-bit came from and how long it has been around.I didn't say that I agree with ponding,but have seen lots of it and IMO mod-bit can handle this.I always address these issues when re-roofing.I've repaired lots like this,but was not refering to my workmanship.Needless to say I put my torch a few years ago for newer technology.
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Old 03-29-2008, 12:16 PM   #59
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I love my torch!!
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Old 03-29-2008, 12:37 PM   #60
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Yeah I agree,I love my torch too.I just hate cost of insurance

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