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-   -   torch down or hot mop on flat roof? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f9/torch-down-hot-mop-flat-roof-90120/)

stanlam 12-21-2010 12:51 AM

torch down or hot mop on flat roof?
 
I have a flat roof that needs to be replaced. I have 2 bids, one is for torch down and the other is for hot mop. Since the wall is higher then the roof, I believe there has to be cant strips installed on the inside corners.

I've been doing researched on the internet and I found 5 opinions that state torch down is superior, while 1 person states hot mop is superior. I am not a roofer, although I've repaired many roofs. When I think about how torch down is installed vs. hot mop I would think hot mop sounds like it should last longer.

Can some professional roofer give me their honest opinion from experience? Thanks.

stanlam 12-21-2010 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murfy888 (Post 554667)
i'm not a roofer ,

I don't know if this is available in your area but, I had both of my
flat roofs covered with fibre glass, this was some 24 years ago, its
still in perfect condition.
The best thing about fibre glass is that its easy to repair should it
ever go wrong.
Lots of boats and all sorts of things are made of fibre glass and some
have been afloat for 40 years or more.

Do you know the process they used to install the fibre glass? Hot mop? torch down? etc.?

OldNBroken 12-21-2010 09:39 PM

Both products have multiple variations for installation governed by how much you want to spend and how long you want it to last.

Either one is a time-tested product and...

Bottom line, both systems are only as good as the crew putting them on.

federer 01-03-2011 01:13 AM

you can look at my thread for pics and some insight into torch down. oldnbroken is right on the money

stanlam 01-29-2011 10:42 PM

Since I wasn't sure what to do, I actually got one roof done with torch down and another that was hot mop. Here's my conclusion....

Torch down is more honest.

The guy that was doing my hot-mop tried to cheat me and put in 3 layers and it was suppose to be 4 layers. It's just so easy to cheat the customer since most people won't sit there and watch the roofer the whole time. Even if a customer was watching, they don't know what to look for. I was watching the roofer and everything was going fine. Then when I left for 20 minutes (the roofer thought I was leaving for good) and came back, I noticed he was change this spacing of the roll and was trying to go for a 3 layer roof.

At least with Torch down, the roofer can't cheat you since it's just a thick layer.

It's explains why most people believe that Torch down last longer (since there is no cheating involved). It also explains why some people say their hot mop roof last over 20 years while others say it only last 10 years. The 20 year hop mop roof probably are the true 4 to 5 layer roofs.

OldNBroken 01-29-2011 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldNBroken (Post 555170)
Bottom line, both systems are only as good as the crew putting them on.

:whistling2: :whistling2: :whistling2:

thermal 01-30-2011 08:53 AM

thermal fibreglass flat roof system
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stanlam (Post 554622)
I have a flat roof that needs to be replaced. I have 2 bids, one is for torch down and the other is for hot mop. Since the wall is higher then the roof, I believe there has to be cant strips installed on the inside corners.

I've been doing researched on the internet and I found 5 opinions that state torch down is superior, while 1 person states hot mop is superior. I am not a roofer, although I've repaired many roofs. When I think about how torch down is installed vs. hot mop I would think hot mop sounds like it should last longer.

Can some professional roofer give me their honest opinion from experience? Thanks.

Hi,
The best flat roof system available, which gives you thermal insulation at R value 00.30. Also soundproofing and a completely seamless GRP finish. Look on our website www.fgrinnovations.com on roofing. Our work comes with a 35 year guarantee.

Regards
John

Slyfox 01-30-2011 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanlam (Post 580705)
Since I wasn't sure what to do, I actually got one roof done with torch down and another that was hot mop. Here's my conclusion....

Torch down is more honest.

The guy that was doing my hot-mop tried to cheat me and put in 3 layers and it was suppose to be 4 layers. It's just so easy to cheat the customer since most people won't sit there and watch the roofer the whole time. Even if a customer was watching, they don't know what to look for. I was watching the roofer and everything was going fine. Then when I left for 20 minutes (the roofer thought I was leaving for good) and came back, I noticed he was change this spacing of the roll and was trying to go for a 3 layer roof.

At least with Torch down, the roofer can't cheat you since it's just a thick layer.

It's explains why most people believe that Torch down last longer (since there is no cheating involved). It also explains why some people say their hot mop roof last over 20 years while others say it only last 10 years. The 20 year hop mop roof probably are the true 4 to 5 layer roofs.

A cheat is a cheat is a cheat, no matter what system you are having installed.
I have worked on a hand full of torch down repairs and found the installers took the time to get 100% adhesion with the laps but only spotty adhesion in the field.
The loose spots in the field of the sheet create air pockets, which gas build ups, which create blistering, which eventually cracks appear and begin allowing moisture in.

A quality installer will install a proper roof no matter if your watching or not.
A cheat will find a way to cheat no matter if your watching or not.

stanlam 01-30-2011 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slyfox (Post 580829)
A cheat is a cheat is a cheat, no matter what system you are having installed.
I have worked on a hand full of torch down repairs and found the installers took the time to get 100% adhesion with the laps but only spotty adhesion in the field.
The loose spots in the field of the sheet create air pockets, which gas build ups, which create blistering, which eventually cracks appear and begin allowing moisture in.

A quality installer will install a proper roof no matter if your watching or not.
A cheat will find a way to cheat no matter if your watching or not.

Darn it. I didn't know that. I didn't watch them during the installation process. Is there a way of checking after the job is done?

rodeo 01-31-2011 11:58 AM

"A quality installer will install a proper roof no matter if your watching or not.
A cheat will find a way to cheat no matter if your watching or not."

Sounds good but I'd have to disagree still. Its not so black/white.
We all hear all the time that we have to stick with "strong reputable contractors", ..make sure they are insured, licensed etc etc.
These methods do weed out the obvious fraudsters but fall far short of indicating who the good roofers really are.

The majority of those so-called "reputable contractors" unfortunately have their good and bad days and are very capable of handing off a POS job to the customer. Roofing is uniquely vulnerable amongst the trades to "sweeping your mistakes under the rug" type of unethical behavior. Once the roofing is laid down, it can be tough to do an accurate comprehensive inspection. You need to inspect at many stages during, not after.

There is a minority group of "good roofers" that really do strive to do the right thing. They may or may not be those companies with big signs and advertising. Some roofers even donate some of their labor to the local community like roofing the library for free etc - even that seeming act of generosity is little to be swayed by. After all, free labor might be cheaper than a splashy yellowpage ad anyway.

Plenty of those same roofers will pass off slop to at least
some of their customers some of the time. You really have to "watch your back" with the majority of roof contractors. More than any other trade.

It isnt the #1 in lawsuits amongst the trades for nothing.

Slyfox 02-01-2011 08:34 AM

"A quality installer will install a proper roof no matter if your watching or not.
A cheat will find a way to cheat no matter if your watching or not."

Sounds good but I'd have to disagree still. Its not so black/white.
We all hear all the time that we have to stick with "strong reputable contractors", ..make sure they are insured, licensed etc etc.
These methods do weed out the obvious fraudsters but fall far short of indicating who the good roofers really are.

It is that black & white.
I said a quality roofer, not a "strong reputable contractors".
I know far more quality roofers that are small mom & pop operations than those who are large companies.

The majority of those so-called "reputable contractors" unfortunately have their good and bad days and are very capable of handing off a POS job to the customer. Roofing is uniquely vulnerable amongst the trades to "sweeping your mistakes under the rug" type of unethical behavior. Once the roofing is laid down, it can be tough to do an accurate comprehensive inspection. You need to inspect at many stages during, not after.

Not true, a quality roofer gives quality work every time and if one of his/her workers mess up they will resolve the situation with out threats of laws suits, etc.
(since 1994 I have had -0- law suits & -0- insurance claims.)
You/home owners should inspect the contractor prior to hiring them,
inspect their work in progress and inspect the completed work before making the final payment.

There is a minority group of "good roofers" that really do strive to do the right thing. They may or may not be those companies with big signs and advertising. Some roofers even donate some of their labor to the local community like roofing the library for free etc - even that seeming act of generosity is little to be swayed by. After all, free labor might be cheaper than a splashy yellowpage ad anyway.

If you see the "free" work advertised/mentioned in the newspaper it was not free, it was cheap advertising.
The company I worked for before going self employed did work for dozens of churches and community groups with no one but their members ever knowing the work was free.

Plenty of those same roofers will pass off slop to at least
some of their customers some of the time. You really have to "watch your back" with the majority of roof contractors. More than any other trade.

You "home owners" need to watch your back in any trade/business,
just look at Wall Street.

It isnt the #1 in lawsuits amongst the trades for nothing.

Not sure how you came to this comment, I searched the BBB, State Attorneys Office, Gov.org sites etc., and can't find any statistic listings.
Can you share your fact findings?

rodeo 02-03-2011 08:27 AM

Roof related lawsuits are #1. Have heard this stat a few times. From googling around:

"Last year, Better Business Bureaus nationwide processed over 10,000 complaints against general contractors, and noted that roofing contractors consistently rank among the top five businesses receiving complaints and garnering report requests. "

http://newsblaze.com/story/200607050.../topstory.html

"Over 50 percent of all construction litigation in the United States involves roofing. This is nearly four times more than the next highly litigated component, wall systems. Furthermore, 75 percent of all new roofs have reported leaks within the first five years"

http://www.arwmag.com/Articles/Colum...100000f932a8c0

I was a little suprised to find this out because as slyfox alluded to, people are people, no matter what line of work - (especially wall street.)

Yet there is something disturbing about roofing profession. I cant put my finger on it really. Slyfox seems like a great roofer but for every one like him, there are ten that will do a bad job - often with the homeowner thanking them for it, as most are understandably clueless about what constitutes a good roof job.

waterman1971 02-03-2011 08:34 AM

Weight can also be a consideration. A traditional hot mop does not rely on mechanical fasteners as does a brai roof.

Slyfox 02-03-2011 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodeo (Post 583757)
Roof related lawsuits are #1. Have heard this stat a few times. From googling around:

"Last year, Better Business Bureaus nationwide processed over 10,000 complaints against general contractors, and noted that roofing contractors consistently rank among the top five businesses receiving complaints and garnering report requests. "

http://newsblaze.com/story/200607050.../topstory.html

"Over 50 percent of all construction litigation in the United States involves roofing. This is nearly four times more than the next highly litigated component, wall systems. Furthermore, 75 percent of all new roofs have reported leaks within the first five years"

http://www.arwmag.com/Articles/Colum...100000f932a8c0

I was a little suprised to find this out because as slyfox alluded to, people are people, no matter what line of work - (especially wall street.)

Yet there is something disturbing about roofing profession. I cant put my finger on it really. Slyfox seems like a great roofer but for every one like him, there are ten that will do a bad job - often with the homeowner thanking them for it, as most are understandably clueless about what constitutes a good roof job.

Thanks for the reply.

Not the concrete stats I was looking for but a good starting point.

Thank you.

arick 02-03-2011 12:13 PM

Another Option-Rubber!
 
I have a 10 X 20 section of rubber that has been fine for 15 years and seems likely to go 5 more easy.Just another option:wink:


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