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Old 04-27-2014, 02:46 PM   #1
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Something missing?


I'm just not getting getting something about shingle roof edges at eaves. You have a layer of roofing felt over a bare deck. It's usually just stapled to the roof deck. On eaves it's placed on top of the drip edge. Then you have a starter strip or starter shingle on top of that. If it's a strip it adheres to the felt. If it's a starter shingle it's not adhered to anything underneath although it's nailed near the top. Then you nail a shingle on top of all this about 6" up from the eave edge.

In other words, in the 6" or so from the edge of an eave everything depends on (at most) the roofing paper, which is held down by some staples (plus maybe the rigidity of the shingles). Rainstorm = wind = windblown rain. What is supposed to hold it all down at the eaves? What stops these three layers from flapping up on the bottom 6" in a gust of wind and collecting water under the roofing paper? Shouldn't edges of the felt be cemented to the deck, and starter courses be cemented to the felt?

On rakes it's a bit better, at least the felt is under the drip edge and there's a nail near the rake edge of the shingles and the shingle cement contacts the drip edge.

Maybe consider this an "engineering" question . . .

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Last edited by suobs; 04-27-2014 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 04-27-2014, 02:57 PM   #2
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Something missing?


If it makes you feel better add a row of storm and ice shield along the bottom edge.

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Old 04-27-2014, 03:27 PM   #3
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Something missing?


[QUOTE=suobs;1343125]I'm just not getting getting something about shingle roof edges at eaves. You have a layer of roofing felt over a bare deck. It's usually just stapled to the roof deck. On eaves it's placed on top of the drip edge. Then you have a starter strip or starter shingle on top of that. If it's a strip it adheres to the felt. If it's a starter shingle it's not adhered to anything underneath although it's nailed near the top. Then you nail a shingle on top of all this about 6" up from the eave edge.

In other words, in the 6" or so from the edge of an eave everything depends on (at most) the roofing paper, which is held down by some staples (plus maybe the rigidity of the shingles). Rainstorm = wind = windblown rain. What is supposed to hold it all down at the eaves? What stops these three layers from flapping up on the bottom 6" in a gust of wind and collecting water under the roofing paper? Shouldn't edges of the felt be cemented to the deck, and starter courses be cemented to the felt?

On rakes it's a bit better, at least the felt is under the drip edge and there's a nail near the rake edge of the shingles and the shingle cement contacts the drip edge.

Maybe consider this an "engineering" question . . .[/

We always installed ice and water barrier on the eaves first, then drip edge, then felt. The weight of the shingles ( assuming they are nailed down ... Don't know why they wouldn't) will keep anything from getting underneath it. Most architectural shingles take anywhere between 4-6 nails per shingle. Unless you get a tornado those shingles will hold up fine. Obviously the wind ratings on shingles specify just how durable they are.
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Old 04-27-2014, 06:23 PM   #4
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Something missing?


I've never seen tar paper just stapled down.
Around here it's not uncommon to have 50 mph gust and during a hurricane 114 MPH winds and never once seen that lower edge lift enough to cause any issues.
Wind blows that hard anything can happen.
Only time I've seen anyone tar the lower edge was about 20years ago before storm and ice shield came out.
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Old 04-28-2014, 06:40 AM   #5
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Something missing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
I've never seen tar paper just stapled down.
Around here it's not uncommon to have 50 mph gust and during a hurricane 114 MPH winds and never once seen that lower edge lift enough to cause any issues.
Wind blows that hard anything can happen.
Only time I've seen anyone tar the lower edge was about 20years ago before storm and ice shield came out.
Very common now, we use these for felt;[ame]http://www.amazon.com/BOSTITCH-H30-8-Hammer-Tacker-Stapler/dp/B0002YTZSC/ref=sr_1_30?ie=UTF8&qid=1398681611&sr=8-30&keywords=staplers+bostitch[/ame]
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:57 AM   #6
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Something missing?


I'll pass on using a whammer and just staples.
Tends to put holes in the paper if not held just the right way and has little holding power.
Last thing I need is to end up sliding off the roof riding the paper.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
I'll pass on using a whammer and just staples.
Tends to put holes in the paper if not held just the right way and has little holding power.
Last thing I need is to end up sliding off the roof riding the paper.
We walk on stapled felt (10/12 pitch) all the time. no rips, no slips. I did not trust it either at first, but after more than 5 years using this method I do. We will use button caps on the bottom and side laps if that particular area won't get shingled that day.

Last edited by roofermann; 04-28-2014 at 10:16 AM. Reason: clarity
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:46 AM   #8
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Something missing?


Would you trust just staples holding it down overnight hoping the wind did not pick up?
Most here asking questions are DIY's and do not have a whole crew putting the shingles on as fast as you can lay the paper.
Not trying to disagree with you, just reality in the real DIY world.
How many times have we all seen a DIY haul the shingles up the roof and lay them still in the wrapping bent over the peak of the roof which will crack the shingles then weeks or months later see them come back and start stripping the roof only to find out the shingles will not lay flat?
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:49 AM   #9
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Something missing?


I like the plan with the ice and water shield at eaves. But it's too late for my project. I checked my neighbor's eave edge and it was done the same way as my original shingles - cement at edges under the felt, gluing the paper to the drip edge on eaves. Hard to get off (had to cut the paper) but those shingles don't budge.

I did find high-wind instructions for their starter strip roll on SOME of the Owens-Corning instructions pdfs and some boxes in the stores (one sentence and missing from some instructions). They say to nail the starter every six inches 1" above the glue strip, which puts the nails about 2-1/2" above the eave edge. That isn't in their diagrams. Makes much more sense to me and seems like it addresses the same problem I'm seeing.

Regarding stapling roofing paper, tin tabs with nails are required in Florida I believe.

Quote:
and during a hurricane 114 MPH winds and never once seen that lower edge lift enough to cause any issues.
If you're checking your eaves during a 114 MPH wind you're more extreme than me!

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