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Old 07-11-2010, 06:35 PM   #16
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skylight and roof replacement and i and w shield


#2 roofer just lowered the price $70. I just don't know what to do. He says the barrier helps prevent condensation and he is definitely flashing the skylight with ice and water shield, I think #1 will give me a hard time if I insist on ice and water shield around skylight.
George
now the diff. is $300 for the new high tech underlayment, plus one sheet of 4x8
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Old 07-12-2010, 12:57 PM   #17
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skylight and roof replacement and i and w shield


I put I&W shield around my friends skylight and I am going to put it around my own skylight when I install it. Sure paper will work, but I&W is better. Skylights can be very susceptible to leaks because of all the joins and gaps going on. The better the protection you put on underneath, the less chance of any leaks if there is a shingle/flashing failure.

Roofer #1 seems to be worried about how much time it's going to take to install the I&W shield. Technique is basically the same as using felt paper, except I&W is sticky on the bottom and can be a pain in the rump to deal with, especially on hot days.

Roofer #2 seems to be concerned about protecting your home.

Good luck in your choice.
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:53 PM   #18
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skylight and roof replacement and i and w shield


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#2 roofer just lowered the price $70. I just don't know what to do. He says the barrier helps prevent condensation and he is definitely flashing the skylight with ice and water shield, I think #1 will give me a hard time if I insist on ice and water shield around skylight.
George
now the diff. is $300 for the new high tech underlayment, plus one sheet of 4x8

He is correct.
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Old 07-12-2010, 06:04 PM   #19
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#2 just lowered price $70 because permit is free. He uses the Roof Aqua Guard UDLX. When I mentioned to #1 that I demanded an iw shield around the skylight, he said I never heard of that-stay off the internet..........#1 said he uses standard #15 tar paper, and would charge $50 for iw shield around skylight(who knows if they ever did it???). #1 is your basic tar paper #15 shingle type of guy. Now there is a price diff. of $245, if I need the 4x8 plywood. I think it is worth going with the newer method of roofing????
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George
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Old 07-12-2010, 06:07 PM   #20
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#2 just lowered price $70 because permit is free. He uses the Roof Aqua Guard UDLX. When I mentioned to #1 that I demanded an iw shield around the skylight, he said I never heard of that-stay off the internet..........#1 said he uses standard #15 tar paper, and would charge $50 for iw shield around skylight(who knows if they ever did it???). #1 is your basic tar paper #15 shingle type of guy. Now there is a price diff. of $245, if I need the 4x8 plywood. I think it is worth going with the newer method of roofing????
Thanks.
George
He needs to read the box that the skylight comes in or the instructions that fall out when you open the box.
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Old 07-12-2010, 06:18 PM   #21
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so, even though #1 was in business a long time-he sold to 2 guys but works in the office to keep busy, I am better off to go with #2 who said right off the bat, an ice and water shield around the skylight and iw barrier underlayment on rest of roof for a $245 diff.-I think it is worth it. Plus, in the price #2 includes a sheet of 4x8(which i might need)........thanks
George
p.s. this has been as stressful as buying my first house-because it also involves an adjoining neighbor who is letting me make the decisions-love those townhouses with attached extension rooms............
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Old 07-13-2010, 06:44 AM   #22
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I think it is worth going with the newer method of roofing????
Thanks.
George
Why?

What is so new and so much better? 15# felt has been used for many many years. As long as the work is done correctly, there are very few, if any problems.
I&W around all penetrations is a newby thing, but yes it does work, for awhile. Usually if the roofing isn't done correctly, I&W just gives a little more time before it leaks.

I can see both sides of it and understand your dillemma. IMO, you need to choose the Contractor that you trust to do the work correctly. Materials and price should be concidered after you've made that choice.

A difference of a few hundred dollars on a roof should not be a big concern.
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:53 AM   #23
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I know 100-200 dollars should not be the determining factor,, but #1 kinda blowing off the iw shield around the skylight, and saying he's never heard of that. I'm sure he knows his business but times do progress....#2 seem to have a more modern approach to the "game"...He os also including the 4x8 sheet, if needed. I do know that #2 does alot of the huge houses around the Main Line, for what it's worth. Also in his writeup #2 wrote the exact model of skylight, #1 simply said replace skylight.....I am just rambling on indecisively. Thanks
George
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:56 PM   #24
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Why?

What is so new and so much better? 15# felt has been used for many many years. As long as the work is done correctly, there are very few, if any problems.
I&W around all penetrations is a newby thing, but yes it does work, for awhile. Usually if the roofing isn't done correctly, I&W just gives a little more time before it leaks.

I can see both sides of it and understand your dillemma. IMO, you need to choose the Contractor that you trust to do the work correctly. Materials and price should be concidered after you've made that choice.

A difference of a few hundred dollars on a roof should not be a big concern.
Doesn't matter if I&WS is a newby thing or not (I totally agree that it's over used and I never depend on it after the roof is finished - I do use the hell out of it when re-roofing for temporary protection) because Velux requires it. See the pic below from the ECM installation manual. They ship it with their flashing kits. The 1st guy is wrong and is reveling in being wrong. It may not be necessary, but it's required per manufacturer's instructions. End of story. And as has been mentioned several times in this thread, the flashing needs to be isolated because of potential condensation problems. I've had to re-install several skylights due to this problem.
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:26 PM   #25
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Doesn't matter if I&WS is a newby thing or not (I totally agree that it's over used and I never depend on it after the roof is finished - I do use the hell out of it when re-roofing for temporary protection) because Velux requires it. See the pic below from the ECM installation manual. They ship it with their flashing kits. The 1st guy is wrong and is reveling in being wrong. It may not be necessary, but it's required per manufacturer's instructions. End of story. And as has been mentioned several times in this thread, the flashing needs to be isolated because of potential condensation problems. I've had to re-install several skylights due to this problem.

The point that MJW is getting at tho, if the sky light is installed properly, including interior insulation, etc., than the i&w serves no actual purpose, but because not all contractors know to check such things and above mentioned problems do come up, the manufacturers are faced with training a million contractors to do it right 'very costly - not feasible' or come up with a dummafied procedure 'ice guard'.

I install it 'because it's spec' and so doe's MJW, but that don't make it right/needed, just following the rules & regulations.
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:56 PM   #26
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just following the rules & regulations.

which makes it ''right and needed''...
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:03 PM   #27
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Well, we have made a decision-we decided to go with # 2., He seemed more professional, even wrote down the exact skylight to use(2246). We will go with the synthetic underlayment and the triple layer in the valley between the 2 roofs. Plus I noticed today there is some soft wood at the bottom of the valley gusset, which they can use the suppplied free one sheet for. I think we made the right decision. I'm sure #1 has done many sudccessful roofs, but his attitude that no iw shield is needed around the skylight and his use of the very standard #15 felt made me think.. He does underbid others to get the job, but is it worth it. $135 for my neighbor and $215 for me-synthetic all around and properly shielded........thanks
G and neighbor
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Old 07-14-2010, 12:00 AM   #28
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as long as the roofer guaranties his work you should be fine--I don`t agree

velux has an installation method they want used tell each roofer that's how YOU want them installed
Before ice and water shield ,fwlt was folded up the wall,or onto the skylight frame to prevent wind driven rain and ice backup at those areas as they are a source of major heat loss,which can also cause a buildup of ice at those areas,which can enter thru the flashings in those situations,
Just becAUSE A ROOFER GUARANTEES IT DOESN`T MEAN A THING,HOW LONG DO Want to deal with problems from a substandard installation ????

And yes the velux installation technique calls for fitting the ice and water shield around the curb of the skylight prior to installing the flashing kit.

1 things for sure :If you want a manufacturer to stand behind their product,you have to do the install according to their specifications.
you can find the relevant information at www.velux.com
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Old 07-14-2010, 12:05 AM   #29
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don`t put ice and water on the entire roof,unless it`s under a 4 pitch,and if thats the case and you do,make extra sure everything is well ventilated from soffit to ridge/clerestory or whatever
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:39 AM   #30
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The point that MJW is getting at tho, if the sky light is installed properly, including interior insulation, etc., than the i&w serves no actual purpose, but because not all contractors know to check such things and above mentioned problems do come up, the manufacturers are faced with training a million contractors to do it right 'very costly - not feasible' or come up with a dummafied procedure 'ice guard'.

I install it 'because it's spec' and so doe's MJW, but that don't make it right/needed, just following the rules & regulations.
The insulation is the problem. Curb mount or deck mount, there is only a layer of drywall and 5/4 or 2x4 separating indoor and outdoor temps at the flashing. In freezing climates, there will be condensation on the back of the flashing. The membrane keeps it outside the shell.
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