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Old 10-18-2009, 07:52 PM   #1
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Which shingles?


Getting ready to have a new roof installed on our home. Have had 4 different contractors come out so far and the estimates vary greatly. There has been as much as $7,000 difference between the high and the low. They all claim to provide pretty much the same service. How much of a difference of the price could be coming from the quality of the shingles? One of the middle priced contractors uses Owens Corning, the other middle man uses GAF, and the lowest uses Atlas Pinnacle 35yr shingles. What are every ones thoughts on the different shingles? Is one better or worse than the rest? The guy with the lowest price came by today and he seemed like he really needed the money and said he would start this week if he got the job. I am a little leery of him because I had to ask a lot of questions that the other contractors answered before I asked the question. His answers however were the same as the others.

Any input is appreciated.
Just found this site tonight and see a lot of great information here.
Thanks.

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Old 10-18-2009, 08:05 PM   #2
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By the way I live in southern Tn. The weather here has not really turned cold yet but is getting into the 30s at night and mid 60s to 70s during the day. The guy that uses the OC said not to worry about the temp that they will seal in 30 degree weather. True? Looking at 30yr architectural shingles.

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Old 10-19-2009, 05:54 AM   #3
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The first thing to remember about shingles is that they provide an equitable roofing solution for about 15-25 years in most situations. There really isn't that much difference between brands except for proprietary things: e.g. where the adhesive strip is, how much algae resistance content, shadow line pattern, etc. GAF is as good as OC for a 30 year dimensional. Three tab shingles are all pretty much the same. When you start seeing differences is looking at 50 year or lifetime shingles. The rest of the time just be prepared to replace every 15-25 years (or if you can catch a storm and get an insurance roof; I know lots of property managers that rarely pay to have their buildings re-roofed). What is more important is the techniques used for installation. Make sure that the flashing metal is high quality, that nails are placed carefully (not just shot all over the place with an over-zealous nailgunner), and that valleys and other details in the architecture are installed appropriately. The shingles will seal in 30 degree weather provided the sun hits them most of the day after they are installed. In weather below 40-50 degrees the shingles will need the help of the sun to seal and to relax and lay flat.

Last edited by Filbee; 10-21-2009 at 04:02 AM.
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:09 AM   #4
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Which shingles?


Filbee, is that a G&B in yer avatar? Nails don't look like copper ones though.
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:10 AM   #5
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BTW, Filbee's answer is correct.
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:30 PM   #6
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Thanks for the input. Couple more quick questions.
1: Some of the contractors are saying that they will use a sticky vinyl or rubber instead of metal in the valleys. Which is better?
2: Flashing around the chimney, one said not to replace it because it is doing its job and not damaged. He says that you run a greater risk of causing a leak if you replace it and start over. Is he correct?

Thanks
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Old 10-19-2009, 04:22 PM   #7
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You only risk damage to chimney or wall flashing if you replace ones that were put in during the initial masonry stave of building. That is, flashings that run to the subwall and completely protect the descending courses of brickwork from moisture. Most flashings installed in the US are not installed in this method, as many workers are not aware that they should be this way. If it were me I would have them replaced. Make sure that the plan is to cut a reglet into the mortar joints and install the counter flashings with metal coils. Then a quality caulk or mortar should cover the edges of the counter flashing where they enter the birckwork. As far as valley substrates, stick with copper, enamel coated aluminum or steel, or the shingles themselves (all over wood decking, of course). An ice-and-water shield underlayment is acceptable though, if the valley is low sloped and the shield is then covered with another material.

Last edited by Filbee; 10-19-2009 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:59 PM   #8
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Ever think of steel? We have a steel roof on our house and I just built a garage and installed steel. Mine has a 40 year finish warranty:

http://vicwest.com/index.php?id=36&tx_products_pi1[cat]=1&tx_products_pi1[showUid]=36&L=0
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Old 10-19-2009, 08:16 PM   #9
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I disagree with Filbee about ice & water sheild being sufficient in a valley.

In my experience, it is difficult to get an architectural shingle to fully conform to the valley, meaning it will "float" over the valley line slightly. If anyone then walks along the valley, there is a good chance of tearing the shingle, shortening its life or causing a leak.

If you are getting an exposed valley, use a "w" valley in the material Filbee described. For a weaved valley, tell your installer to use coil metal, and "float" it slightly over the valley, thus providing some support under the shingle along the valley line.

Does this make sense?
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:06 PM   #10
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Tinner:
I use a Stortz handed down to me from a slater who I learned a lot from. Ive replaced the handle twice and it keeps on going. Not as pretty as that picture though; I just downloaded that image for its nice look. Hows slate work in VA right now?
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:13 PM   #11
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If installed correctly, a dimensional shingle in a valley works as well as any shingle. It is important to install valley shingles while they are pliable though. As for the Ice and Water shield, I believe it is a better underlayment than the cheap felt paper usually offered these days. Underlayment is the keyword; sound building methods always require a finished product over any felt or ice guard on a roof. 'W' valley fabricated from a coated steel (warranted) or copper is a great valley, to be sure. But any valley using quality metal (weaved or open) will raise the cost significantly if there are a lot of valleys on the project. Just make sure your roofer is straightforward about your demands and needs; a contractor's demeanor can tell you a lot about your finished product.

Last edited by Filbee; 10-19-2009 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 10-20-2009, 05:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filbee View Post
If installed correctly, a dimensional shingle in a valley works as well as any shingle. It is important to install valley shingles while they are pliable though. As for the Ice and Water shield, I believe it is a better underlayment than the cheap felt paper usually offered these days. Underlayment is the keyword; sound building methods always require a finished product over any felt or ice guard on a roof. 'W' valley fabricated from a coated steel (warranted) or copper is a great valley, to be sure. But any valley using quality metal (weaved or open) will raise the cost significantly if there are a lot of valleys on the project. Just make sure your roofer is straightforward about your demands and needs; a contractor's demeanor can tell you a lot about your finished product.
I didn't mean to imply that felt is better than Ice&Water sheild, only that in my opinion there should always be metal in a valley, woven or open. I always roll Ice&Water up the valley, then install my valley metal over that.
But, every carpenter/roofer has his own tried and true methods.
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Old 10-21-2009, 04:13 PM   #13
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I use the I&W and the metal. I weave valleys slowly by warming 8-10 shingles at a time i the sun, OUT of the bundle, and scattered on the roof. They are very pliable.

Philbee, slate is good in Va. Doing one tomorrow and expect to post pics over at roofingtalk and maybe at SRC forum so the others slaters and flail at me.
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Old 10-28-2009, 06:58 PM   #14
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Thanks for the information guys, it really helps. I think we have pretty much decided on a contractor just have a couple more questions. One of the contractors said that there was no need to replace the felt after removing the shingles if it want damaged. I would think that the felt should definitely be replaced. Is it acceptable to not replace the felt after removing the shingles? Also we do not live in a high wind area and I believe I have heard that 4 nails per shingle is the minimum. Is that correct, acceptable?

Thanks
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Old 10-28-2009, 07:27 PM   #15
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You should always replace the felt on a re-roof.

As far as I'm concerned, any roofing contractor that thinks felt will last through 2 shingle lifetimes is a hack.

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