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Old 12-24-2007, 05:21 PM   #16
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Shingle Installation with F5S Standard Drip Edge


Thanks Ed. I guess you are saying they can remove the nails and bend back the shingles (third row) without cracking or damaging them? What if they suggest pulling back the first row including the starter and putting weather lock under it? If they do that I suppose it would only go back a max of 5 to 6 inches.

As far as MD, that thread was removed shortly after I created it. In any event, I apologize for the derogatory comments I made to him here.


Picture of a starting edge:

Last edited by ShortEdged; 12-25-2007 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 12-25-2007, 10:19 PM   #17
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Shingle Installation with F5S Standard Drip Edge


usually bottom/fascia eaves get 3/4-1" overhang past the drip edge,that drip edge is readily available at Bradco supply,allied,and at other suppliers
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Old 01-07-2008, 03:52 PM   #18
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Shingle Installation with F5S Standard Drip Edge


Ed,
Have a read: http://www.floridadisaster.org/mitig...ll_shingle.asp

If glued down with asphalt glue/calk as this states. Any issues?
Thanks
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:11 PM   #19
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Shingle Installation with F5S Standard Drip Edge


the shingles will deteriorate faster,but they won`t blow off in a storm ,which is their primary concern in florida
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:42 PM   #20
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Shingle Installation with F5S Standard Drip Edge


Quote:
Originally Posted by the roofing god View Post
the shingles will deteriorate faster,but they won`t blow off in a storm ,which is their primary concern in florida
How and why would the shingles deteriorate faster by gluing the eves, rakes and gables edges down?
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:51 PM   #21
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Shingle Installation with F5S Standard Drip Edge


I didn't read your link, but I suspect it refers to Florida's new code for perimeter edge shingle to be laid in a fully cemented bed of roofing cement sealant.

Shingle manufacturers will claim that the excessive roofing cement, (not glue), will react with the asphalt of the composition shingles.

Roofing cements contain solvents to make them pliable for installation purposes and the solvents will wick into the underside of the shingles and eat them away.

Per the manufacturers instructions, when it comes to using roofing cement to ensure a secure seal, they insist on only occassional dollups of roof cement from a tube be applied sporadically, just enough to maintain contact and create the seal.

Who knows what Florida's new code criteria will create when it comes to shingle warranty issues down the road. It just allows the manufacturers one more escape clause, and legitimately so, to evade their long term warranty provisions initially included.

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Old 01-08-2008, 11:55 AM   #22
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I didn't read your link, but I suspect it refers to Florida's new code for perimeter edge shingle to be laid in a fully cemented bed of roofing cement sealant.
Yes and that is says to start shingles flush with the type of drip edged used here.
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Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer View Post
Shingle manufacturers will claim that the excessive roofing cement, (not glue), will react with the asphalt of the composition shingles.

Roofing cements contain solvents to make them pliable for installation purposes and the solvents will wick into the underside of the shingles and eat them away.
Any particular manufactures you are referring? Called OC and they stated this practice is acceptable. However they recommend an asphalt cement/Plastic Cement that meets ASTM D-4586 Type I or II (Asbestos Free). Not NP1 as they said they do not know anything about that product. As far as I could tell NP1 does not meet 4586. I know, they can say anything on the phone, but I did find this in the installation manual. Does this cover this issue? Note: "continuous layer"

From the installation instructions:
(C) Apply metal drip edge over underlayment at rake.
Note: Where eaves flashing is required, apply Owens Corning WeatherLock Underlayment or equivalent specialty eaves flashing product, or apply a continuous layer of asphalt plastic cement between the plies of underlayment at least 24" beyond the inside wall line.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer View Post
Who knows what Florida's new code criteria will create when it comes to shingle warranty issues down the road. It just allows the manufacturers one more escape clause, and legitimately so, to evade their long term warranty provisions initially included.
Ed

well, I think this would happen either way.. I already have seen a roof failure where insurance says it was installation, roofer says it was defective shingles, manufacture say no.. Battle goes on, at the end of the day owner out in the rain.
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Old 01-08-2008, 12:19 PM   #23
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Shingle Installation with F5S Standard Drip Edge


"or apply a continuous layer of asphalt plastic cement between the plies of underlayment at least 24" beyond the inside wall line."


That specification is so out-dated. They used to suggest that as the ice-damming prevention method. They are referring to sandwiching 2 plies of felt paper together being fully adhered to the decking. Since the advent of the Grace Ice and Water Shield products, this specificatiom has become a non-entity. As a matter of fact, on all of the tear-offs I have ever done, I have Never seen this specification done.

Regarding warranties, I wish the manufacturer would only provide one with a paid inspection by one of their quality contraol reps, say a minimum of a $ 200.00 fee and $ 10.00 per square after the minimum is bypassed.

Would that sound reasonable? Then they could not back out of the warranty due to supposed installation errors, since that should be icked up during the initial inspection.

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Old 01-08-2008, 12:43 PM   #24
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Shingle Installation with F5S Standard Drip Edge


Quote:
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"or apply a continuous layer of asphalt plastic cement between the plies of underlayment at least 24" beyond the inside wall line."


That specification is so out-dated.
Maybe, but seems to be acceptable and covered by the extended warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer View Post
Regarding warranties, I wish the manufacturer would only provide one with a paid inspection by one of their quality contraol reps, say a minimum of a $ 200.00 fee and $ 10.00 per square after the minimum is bypassed.

Would that sound reasonable? Then they could not back out of the warranty due to supposed installation errors, since that should be icked up during the initial inspection.

Ed
I agree totally as long as the inspector is not biased and inspects also from the roof owner prospective not just the roof installer. I wonder if an inspector would have found the things I noticed. Talked to the roofer about an inspection from a third party so I now exactly where you are coming from. Are inspections required on the hurricane coast areas? In Texas I thought it was a free service, but that may only be code related.
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:01 PM   #25
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Shingle Installation with F5S Standard Drip Edge


I was speaking of a manufacturers inspection. Either it is passed or failed, or passed as long as some remediation details are corrected.

Building inspectors are worthless.

The manufacturer actually would have more bias towards failing the installation if they had to then offer the full warranty, not labor, just materials. But that fact would actually rise the level of installations, by requiring the installers to perform correctly.

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Old 02-13-2008, 03:52 PM   #26
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Shingle Installation with F5S Standard Drip Edge


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer View Post
I was speaking of a manufacturers inspection. Either it is passed or failed, or passed as long as some remediation details are corrected.
The manufacturer actually would have more bias towards failing the installation if they had to then offer the full warranty, not labor, just materials. But that fact would actually rise the level of installations, by requiring the installers to perform correctly.

Ed
Hi Ed, Sounds like my roofer may have been reading your mind. I will get to that after the update.
The roofer sealed down the edges with asphalt cement and I do not know much about the effectiveness of this other than seeing the Dade County requirement. However, the asphalt cement in many places has prevented the starter shingles from laying down flush with the drip edge. The bead of cement is thick keeping it from laying down. Does this sound okay?

Second, there must have been a miscommunication because I thought he was going to remove and replace the gable ends with new shingles. What actually was done was a removal of the end pieces or in many instances just pulling them up moving the starter and replacing only a few end pieces. I almost did not get up there and inspect, but glad I did. This is what I have found:

Not nailed in. Some are lose and others have a few dabs of cement.




Some nailed high because the shingle is torn up






I expressed my findings to the roofer. Said he would make it right. A few days ago he called and said he thought it would be a good idea to have the OC rep/inspector look at the roof and point out any issues. Sounds like a good idea. However I want to be prepared with my list and data to present to him. What do you think of the gables? What do I say if I hear: When the sun hits the roof in the spring it will seal down and those holes and tears will not mater? The sad part is they ripped up the adjacent full shingle as well when doing this repair. I have already told him I want the gables redone with new material. At least back to where there is no damaged shingles or holes and if that meant the whole gable then so be it. I also stated I want new felt and starters used. Does that sound like the right repair?

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Old 02-13-2008, 03:58 PM   #27
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Shingle Installation with F5S Standard Drip Edge


Also, Notice the starter is in-between the shingles in this photo:
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:35 PM   #28
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Shingle Installation with F5S Standard Drip Edge


Looks Like The Starter Is Butted To The Top Of That Shingle,you Paid For New,he Should Repair It To New,you`re Not In Dade County,that Spec Means Nothing,looks Like Crap And The Shingles Should Be Removed ,replaced With New ,w/proper 1/2" Overhang Past Drip Edge Cut With A Chalkline, Just My Opinion,what I Would Expect To Be Required Of Me ,if I Was A Sloppy Roofer Like That
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:38 PM   #29
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And The Tar Issue Is They Will Bake Prematurely And Lose Granulation,and Eventually Their Weathertightedness Long Before They Normally Would
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Old 02-15-2008, 12:55 PM   #30
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Shingle Installation with F5S Standard Drip Edge


From the other thread it appears I fall in that 90%
What would you expect the OC Rep/Inspector to say about the Gables and the Eaves if I show him these pictures?
Thanks
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