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Old 12-28-2008, 10:30 PM   #1
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Rubber Roof over Ice & Water Shield


I have a 15 yr old 4/12 pitched roof that is leaking over the cathedral ceiling. There is R30 fiberglass with 30 feet from the soffit vent to the ridge vent. Not sure how well the 2" gaps above the insulation are working especially with a 30 foot run and the skylights & chimney blocking some of the vents. The ridge is 44 feet.

A roofing guy said do the whole roof in .060" "white" rubber because it has 6 skylights, we get 2 feet of snow on the roofs here (Northern Massachusetts) and ice dams are an issue on big cathedral ceilings. You can't see this roof section easily from the ground so I am okay with rubber.

He'll tear off the shingles and leave the ice & water shield, which now covers the whole roof. He will put down 1/2" fiberboard under the rubber, for expansion purposes. So...
- Won't leaving the I&W shield down cause a double vapor barrier? Shouldn't the I&W shield at least be scored?
- Is there a way to attach my beloved gutter covers? I can't slide them under the shingles any more.
- Any other thoughts about using a rubber roof on a 4/12 pitch?
Thanks.
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:43 PM   #2
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Rubber Roof over Ice & Water Shield


The right way to do it is to remove everything down to the plywood. Replace any damaged plywood and install glass base sheet over the plywood ,after adding 1/2"fiberboard. If you have alot of drains on the roof consider a tapered lot roof insulation.
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Old 12-29-2008, 08:39 AM   #3
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Rubber Roof over Ice & Water Shield


I have no experience trying to remove I&W shield but it is pretty sticky stuff. YOu are talking 13 squares or 41 sheets of plywood if the plywood would have to come off. All the skylights would have to come off as well. This would more than double the price of the reroof.

In that case I would just rather redo what is up there by tearing off the shingles and putting another layer of I&W shield & new 3 tab shingles. I could put tear out the ceilign and put in R50 if I wanted it to last longer. THis would lessen the amount of ice damming.
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Old 12-30-2008, 03:15 PM   #4
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Rubber Roof over Ice & Water Shield


Just have him slice the ice and water at the plywood joints and dont worry about it. It will be fine. And epdm is a great product on flat or sloped roofs. Id stick with the black material though it lasts a lot longer than white does. if you need white either paint it or go with a pvc or tpo membrane.
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Old 12-30-2008, 05:22 PM   #5
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Rubber Roof over Ice & Water Shield


Its fine to go over the I&W shield. I would however not recomend using fiberboard at all. You should use polyiso instead as it dosent absorb water like that garbage fiberboard does. although it is more money. Fiberboard is just compressed recycled sawdust laminated together, that all it is. If you ever have a leak it holds water and rots out the decking.

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Old 12-30-2008, 06:23 PM   #6
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Rubber Roof over Ice & Water Shield


Okay, Isoboard. I think as long as there isn't anything that will rot above the I&W shield I should be okay with the I&W shield. I will see if I can get anyone to install TPO or PVC if durability of the white Firestone EPDM is an issue.
Thanks.
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:40 PM   #7
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Firestone's white epdm called ecowhite is fairly new to the market and according to them is better than the older white epdm. But they don't offer a 30 yr warranty on it but will in black. Although they don't warrant residential at all. If you cant see the roof really and are using iso then where you live white is not that important. Theres just not that many days of hot weather to need it.
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:58 PM   #8
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Rubber Roof over Ice & Water Shield


It's visible. I don't think I can get away with black in my neighborhood.
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Old 12-31-2008, 05:40 AM   #9
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Rubber Roof over Ice & Water Shield


Go WITH PVC,Sarnafil,or IB roofing systems offer excellent systems
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Old 12-31-2008, 12:44 PM   #10
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Rubber Roof over Ice & Water Shield


TPO is peal & stick so the roofer prefers that over PVC. Can this be stuck directly to the I&W shield? I was also told I could put Densdeck or ISO board under the TPO. Not sure why I need a board underneath it unless it is to improve impact resistance. Neither Densdeck or ISOboard is advertised for impact resistance. The roof is pretty solid 2 x 10s 16" O.C. spanning 12 feet max. with 3/4" CDX plywood
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Old 01-01-2009, 12:58 PM   #11
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Rubber Roof over Ice & Water Shield


Quote:
Originally Posted by PerpetuallyRepairing View Post
TPO is peal & stick so the roofer prefers that over PVC. Can this be stuck directly to the I&W shield? I was also told I could put Densdeck or ISO board under the TPO. Not sure why I need a board underneath it unless it is to improve impact resistance. Neither Densdeck or ISOboard is advertised for impact resistance. The roof is pretty solid 2 x 10s 16" O.C. spanning 12 feet max. with 3/4" CDX plywood
NO,The iso is there to "divorce" the membranes,basically prevents expansion/contraction issues from affecting the top roof---the tpo is a cheap imitation for a PVC roof
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Old 01-01-2009, 03:50 PM   #12
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Rubber Roof over Ice & Water Shield


Actually Tpo is chemicly more like epdm than pvc. And its no imitation. Its a replacement for pvc if anything. Pvc is a carcinogenic and also is made with plastisizers wich leach out over time causing the pvc to become brittle and possibly crack.
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Old 01-01-2009, 09:10 PM   #13
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Rubber Roof over Ice & Water Shield


According to Dow's TPO (Steven's EP Fully Adhered System) installation manual the membrane can be directly adhered to plywood or concrete as long as the gaps are < 1/4". Thus if my plywood & I&W shield was put down well, it looks like I don't need an intermediate layer.

Reading industry articles there is a concern over TPO systems because they are not as time tested as PVC. Perhaps some brands of TPO are better than others?
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:09 AM   #14
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Rubber Roof over Ice & Water Shield


not the best application unless all plywood is screwed and exposed plywood is finished grade(top side sanded),and cut edges are sanded,you should use a slip sheet,firestone makes one of the better TPO`S,but PVC is the better product ,and much easier to weld down the line---there are topics elsewhere regarding TPO failures(including stevens)-don`t think the boss here would like me accessing other forum topics for you,so I won`t
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:12 AM   #15
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Rubber Roof over Ice & Water Shield


Well why dont we start with......

Why and where is it leaking? A 4/12 pitch shouldnt need a low slope system, especially if you have full coverage of ice and water shield. Got any pics?
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