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-   -   Roofing Underlayment (http://www.diychatroom.com/f9/roofing-underlayment-181236/)

jpm6621 06-03-2013 09:51 PM

Roofing Underlayment
 
Just got all new sheathing down so im starting to put down the underlayment. I have 2 small roofs on this house (22"wide x 16' eave to peak) which are right next to an outside wall of the house. First i took all the siding off. Installed 3' roll of ice and water at the eave and continued up the wall 8". Then the rest of the way up to the peak i used tigerpaw underlayment doing the same thing running it up the wall. When i shingle i'm going to install step flashing. My question is, should this roof be completely ice and water or is using the regular underlayment fine for the rest of the way?

CENTERLINE MV 06-03-2013 10:33 PM

30# felt & you're good to go. I personally would never Grace an entire roof.

joecaption 06-03-2013 10:39 PM

I agree. Sure would increase the cost of the job and really not needed.

jagans 06-03-2013 10:44 PM

Considering the size of the areas you are doing, I do not see why you don't use ice dams protection membrane for the whole thing.

joecaption 06-03-2013 10:48 PM

Is it really 22' not 22"?

jpm6621 06-03-2013 10:58 PM

No its only 22 inches wide, 16 feet long (eave to peak), it was a full size roof but there was an addition so on each side of that are two small roofs that i describe. Im using architectural shingles, never have used them, so how do i shingle this section. Do i do the same thing as full size roof, cut 6" off then 12" then 18" and run it like that? Or can i use all full pieces then trim them at the rake or will they not line up properly this way?

PatChap 06-04-2013 06:37 AM

I would use all full pieces. I would not ice shield the whole thing. When your installing the steps leave a 1/4 - 1/2" gap at the wall end and it will be fine and dandy.

jagans 06-04-2013 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatChap (Post 1194874)
I would use all full pieces. I would not ice shield the whole thing. When your installing the steps leave a 1/4 - 1/2" gap at the wall end and it will be fine and dandy.

Why? its 22 inches wide, and ice dams material is peel and stick, eliminating staples or cap nails to hold the underlayment. It will also make the 90 degree turn at the rising wall much better than felt which will crack along the angle change.

OP, if I was you I would use 12 inch long by 10 inch ( 5-5, L ) step flashing so you can pick up two courses with each step. This way you wont see the metal through the keys that fall within 5 inches of the rising wall. Credit this trick to my partners dad. The guy was a whip, we called him Pop.

Pop stopped at a fruit stand with his pickup after work, asked the vendor how much the apples were. The vendor said "The more you buy the cheaper they are" so Pop says: "Well then keep throwing them in till they're free"

PatChap 06-04-2013 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagans (Post 1194978)
Why? its 22 inches wide, and ice dams material is peel and stick, eliminating staples or cap nails to hold the underlayment. It will also make the 90 degree turn at the rising wall much better than felt which will crack along the angle change.

OP, if I was you I would use 12 inch long by 10 inch ( 5-5, L ) step flashing so you can pick up two courses with each step. This way you wont see the metal through the keys that fall within 5 inches of the rising wall. Credit this trick to my partners dad. The guy was a whip, we called him Pop.

Pop stopped at a fruit stand with his pickup after work, asked the vendor how much the apples were. The vendor said "The more you buy the cheaper they are" so Pop says: "Well then keep throwing them in till they're free"

From what I gathered from the OP, these roofs are beside the house and do not cross an inside wall. They are very unlikely to ice dam at all, and the OP has already laid out some pricey synthetic underlay. It will do its job just fine on that little roof.
The big steps are a good idea, though I doubt the op is using 3tabs.

jagans 06-04-2013 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatChap (Post 1195197)
From what I gathered from the OP, these roofs are beside the house and do not cross an inside wall. They are very unlikely to ice dam at all, and the OP has already laid out some pricey synthetic underlay. It will do its job just fine on that little roof.
The big steps are a good idea, though I doubt the op is using 3tabs.

You are correct, I wasent even considering ice damming as a potential problem. I was just thinking about wind blown rain and the fact that these are like rake edges, which benefit from ice dams material to envelope the rake metal, and seal the nails from blowing rain. The SBS material makes the turn in the angle change much better than felt, too.

I dont think one more roll of ice dams material will break the bank, do you? Id go the extra mile if I was him, especially if hes doing it himself. He's got no labor cost.

747 06-04-2013 10:20 PM

If you can afford it. Sure ice and water the whole thing. Now here is the big question. Will you still be living in the house when it needs a new roof 25 years from now. If no. Ice and water the whole thing. If yes real pain in the ass to get off 25 years from now..

Windows on Wash 06-05-2013 07:53 AM

For the cost of less than 1 roll, I would I/W the whole thing too.

+1 on having fun when you remove it.

jpm6621 06-09-2013 12:38 AM

Laying Architectural Shingles
 
Just started laying the shingles on this small roof. I decided to use full pieces but now im stuck with a bunch of small pieces, maybe 16" wide. Im not sure how to line up architectural shingles the proper way, and when i do the full size roof (16x31) and butt up full lengths there will be a straight up and down line where they meet while the design of the shingles are angled (the raised sections of the shingle). Is this how they butt up together? When i helped someone with their architectural shingles and what i remember we'd start with a full length, then take 6" off the next course, 12" off next, 18" off next, then back to a full length and did this all the way to the peak, is this right?
Then i have one small valley at the eave where i want to have the closed cut method. From what i know i start with the low volume roof running the shingles through the valley at least 12" with no nails within 6" of the valley. Then run the shingles from the high volume room into the valley, snap a line 2" out of the valley, trim the shingles along that line, crop the top corner to direct any water into the valley then tar along where the shingles have been cut. What im not sure about is the first row and running the ridge cap into the other roof. Im using rolled starter course for the shingles. Do i run the starter course through the valley? Then i've seen people run the first course from the high volume roof through the valley first before anything. Any response would be great.

PatChap 06-09-2013 09:11 AM

What shingles are you using?
Every laminated shingle I've used had different patterns on every shingle, rarely repeating the same design close together in the bundle. I understand most have 20-40 different designs.

Save the 16" pieces, they will come in handy for starting the roof and filling in the other side, if you do a 8" stagger. Your 6" stagger will work, 8" is better though may take a bit more time moving around the roof.

Your fairly correct on the valley, the higher water volume side should be the cut side, and it should have the first and starter course woven under the other overlapping shingles. When you crop the shingles, make sure its a decent sized crop, I usually do a 3-4" triangle, as this is what stops water from getting under the valley. The only tar you should use in a valley goes under the cut shingles, 6"behind the cut, for wind driven rain and to help prevent blow-offs.

RWolff 06-09-2013 12:19 PM

On my roof I decided to use the Tamko moisture guard not just on the eaves, but over the entire deck as a good additional layer of waterproof material. The label directions state it CAN be used this way and while there was additional cost, compared to the whole cost it was minimal- adding maybe $300. I seem to remember it was around $29 a roll when I bought it, and it taking baout 10 rolls to do the whole roof.

I am real glad I did, because I used the Certainteed shingles and they started to fail due to defective product about 6-1/2 years into a 30 year warrantee.

I removed the worst section and replaced it, the Tamko sheet under it was in pristine condition after 8 years on the roof, and adhered well to the plywood deck, I left it in place.
This stuff is a heavy rubberized material that seals around nails, I would definitely use this on any roof I would put in- over the whole deck.


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