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Roofing Question Recommendations

4K views 29 replies 11 participants last post by  chandler48 
#1 ·
I've read many of the posts here and from a roofing contractor's standpoint, there are some things I must advise to homeowners and/or members who ask questions directed towards roofing professionals to who visit this site.

1. Check local building codes prior to asking questions. Keep in mind that building codes vary from province to province, state to state, and region to region. Even different municipalities within the same regional district will have different building codes. When I build a roof in Winnipeg, it is much different from a roof I build in Vancouver, etc. While manufacturers have their specifics on how to properly install their products, the bottom line is that products must be installed to local code as a bare minimum. Keep this in mind when professionals answer your questions on this forum.

2. Take pictures and post them with your question. It's difficult to describe what you're talking about without pictures, and also remember that different roofing contractors use different terminology when describing the same thing. What one roofing contractor can call a "wash" can be also described as a "water channel" by another. Help us help you!

3. Most roofing repairs and procedures are best left to professionals to begin with. While we can describe a procedure to help you save money by doing it yourself, it's generally best left to someone who does this for a living. There is a reason why most local hardware stores don't offer roofing classes. Many renovation and hardware stores will provide free classes on basic electrical, plumbing, tile setting, flooring etc. but rarely, if ever on roofing. Roofing is a trade that takes years of experience and constant training to be at a top tier of the trade.

So please keep this recommendations in consideration when asking us your questions and we'll be happy to help!
 
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#22 ·
$15,000 includes tear off both layers of shingles and existing roof deck down to the roof truss, installation of new Huber Zip System 5/8-inch OSB, CertainTeed WeatherGuard HT ice and water shield around eaves and roof protrusions, GAF/Elk Deck Armour synthetic underlayment, CertainTeed Landmark Triple Laminate shingles and replacement of all flashings with 24-gauge S-Lock.

Everything explained above is my basic roof. My company only markets towards the very, very high end roofing market.

Regarding my staff, I do not employ labourers. I have minimum 1st year apprentices. All of my staff have minimum Occupational First Aid Level 3. All of my staff are accredited through the regional training centres of the CRCA. Everyone in my company undergoes bi-annual drug screening. My company is also COR certified.

Entry level wage in my company is $20.00/HR for a 1st year apprentice while my top wage for my foreman is $45.00/HR. Minimum wage in British Columbia is $10.25, Alberta is $9.95, Saskatchewan $10.20 and in Manitoba is $10.45. Legally I can not adjust my staff's wages regardless of the region I am working in.

By the way, even with my staff of six this would not be a one day job. If you can finish this off in one day I would love to do an accredited inspection on your roof after and point out all the issues you'll have further down the road.

I'm not promoting myself, I'm simply explaining the why up here that roof would cost $15,000 from me, not including materials.
 
#2 ·
3. Most roofing repairs and procedures are best left to professionals to begin with. While we can describe a procedure to help you save money by doing it yourself, it's generally best left to someone who does this for a living. There is a reason why most local hardware stores don't offer roofing classes. Many renovation and hardware stores will provide free classes on basic electrical, plumbing, tile setting, flooring etc. but rarely, if ever on roofing. Roofing is a trade that takes years of experience and constant training to be at a top tier of the trade.
I can't begin to explain how much I agree with this tip. It takes years to become a good roofer, and even after 10 plus years very few can say they know a lot about the roofing industry. They may say it but they don't.

Never mind all of that but the fact is it's plain dangerous. People complain all the time how expensive roofing is. You are right it is, we pay out of our nose for material and insurance, yet get treated like scum and our pay scale is less then stellar. People put in 10's of 100's of dollars in to remodels and the such, but go find joe billy bob to throw some shingles up there for 2-3000. It's just a roof right.

While we are often helpful with your projects, it always comes with a bit of apprehension. We don't want to see you get hurt trying to replace your soil stack flashing, or whatever the project at hand is.



I'd also like to add a #4. Fact check what we told you. While everyone may have a slightly different way of doing a particular task, they all have the same basic principals. But, there has been some people "who know it all" give some really crappy advise. Every manufactures products I've used everything from shingles, the various flat/low sloped materials, metal, coatings ect. All of them have detailed instructions. A majority of them are on the internet.


Oh while I'm at it #5. Be polite, if we offer advice there is such a thing of just ignoring it if it's not what you want to hear. Or if someone gives you suggestions oh how to find a leak and it doesn't turn out to work, at least they tried. It's can sometimes be nearly impossible to find a leak out in the field let alone 1000's of miles away from a picture that was taken at the wrong time of day and to far back or too close.
 
#3 ·
I can't begin to explain how much I agree with this tip. It takes years to become a good roofer, and even after 10 plus years very few can say they know a lot about the roofing industry. They may say it but they don't.

Never mind all of that but the fact is it's plain dangerous. People complain all the time how expensive roofing is. You are right it is, we pay out of our nose for material and insurance, yet get treated like scum and our pay scale is less then stellar. People put in 10's of 100's of dollars in to remodels and the such, but go find joe billy bob to throw some shingles up there for 2-3000. It's just a roof right.

While we are often helpful with your projects, it always comes with a bit of apprehension. We don't want to see you get hurt trying to replace your soil stack flashing, or whatever the project at hand is.



I'd also like to add a #4. Fact check what we told you. While everyone may have a slightly different way of doing a particular task, they all have the same basic principals. But, there has been some people "who know it all" give some really crappy advise. Every manufactures products I've used everything from shingles, the various flat/low sloped materials, metal, coatings ect. All of them have detailed instructions. A majority of them are on the internet.


Oh while I'm at it #5. Be polite, if we offer advice there is such a thing of just ignoring it if it's not what you want to hear. Or if someone gives you suggestions oh how to find a leak and it doesn't turn out to work, at least they tried. It's can sometimes be nearly impossible to find a leak out in the field let alone 1000's of miles away from a picture that was taken at the wrong time of day and to far back or too close.
You hit that hard nail flush with the shingle brother! I agree. The costs of doing business has risen and low ballers have been underbidding me for since the economy tanked. I employ some of the best professionals in the industry and pay them far higher than the industry standard and provide them with far better work benefits than my competitors just to keep them with me, so in the end when you consider how much time I put in I'm not making much more than my foreman. I rarely do torch-on anymore because fire insurance is through the roof. I'm competing with contractors who aren't ticketed, accredited, insured or licensed and almost all of them lack the experience to even be offering roofing services to the general public. It pisses me off when I get a call and they ask for a free estimate or how cheap I can go when I see a $50,000 car in their driveway and their roof looks shot to hell. Homeowners are willing to spend a tonne of money on bathroom renovations, car payments and vacations but they look at the cheapest, crappiest roof they can put on. The consumers don't understand that we are literally risking our lives to earn every dollar we make and yet the cost of business is getting higher while the profit margins are getting smaller. I left the automotive industry because tool costs were getting higher and flat rate pay sucked with the more complicated cars coming out. Now it's the same thing all over again in roofing.

All that aside, I'm here to offer assistance to anyone but please consider steps #1 - #5!
 
#15 ·
I was afraid of that. I think the price will drop for the insulation a bit if we decide to go with them since we really don't need any more insulation over the garage, which is on the left side of the picture I posted. The square footage over the second floor is right around 700 sq. ft.

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#17 ·
Before you decide which contractor to go with, regardless of the pricing be sure that they have the paperwork to prove that they're licensed, bonded, insured and accredited. The should provide a scope of work, a first aid attention on site at all times and an emergency plan. All of this information should be posted on site visible for all their staff as well as the homeowners to view at any time. Companies that look after their employees are companies with the best employees which provide the best quality of work.
 
#4 ·
Having done the roof on my house myself......

My take....it's not hard work....it's not technically difficult work.....

But when one looks at the money saved vs DIY.....I will NEVER do another roof.

For the most part, it's grunt work. Any money I saved was spent of beer....you know the routine....nail a few rows....have a beer and admire your work....do a few more rows.....have another beer....

I think the price difference between doing it myself vs a contractor....maybe $1000......

When I was ready for the roof to my addition...it was a no brainer....guys were done in 2 days.....did a great job.....it was so nice just sitting there drinking a beer and watching them do the work....while it started to rain.....talk about timing....
 
#5 ·
Having done the roof on my house myself......

My take....it's not hard work....it's not technically difficult work.....

But when one looks at the money saved vs DIY.....I will NEVER do another roof.

For the most part, it's grunt work. Any money I saved was spent of beer....you know the routine....nail a few rows....have a beer and admire your work....do a few more rows.....have another beer....

I think the price difference between doing it myself vs a contractor....maybe $1000......

When I was ready for the roof to my addition...it was a no brainer....guys were done in 2 days.....did a great job.....it was so nice just sitting there drinking a beer and watching them do the work....while it started to rain.....talk about timing....
If you're able to save money rather than hiring a contractor, by all means. I work on my vehicles and save tonnes of money rather than spending money at a dealership or independent shop. I also do whatever construction work I can rather than hiring other contractors. However, certain things have to be left to professionals. If you have an easy roof and really know how to install a roof well, then by all means. However, when it comes to more complicated roofs with intricate detail work it's better to take out a loan and hire the best contractor.
 
#9 ·
I was.....

Come tear off a 3 layer BUR 100' in the air with a 12" parapet wall around you for 12-16 hour days and then tell me how hard the work isn't.

Or come with me for a day and replace a built in gutter with copper working around dormers and the like and stand in a man lift for 12+ hours, then tell me how it isn't technically challenging.

While a up and over single layer tear off isn't incredibly hard, or technically difficult, it makes up for about 1% of the knowledge you need to be a actual roofer. Sure it's not hard work when you can space out a 12 sq roof in to a long weekend and 3 cases of beer. But do it day after day doesn't matter commercial, or residential you will come up to a different issue each day that you need to have the know how to work around it. I don't care to have my crew leaders call me every hour because there is a corner detail they can't figure out. I'd rather have them call me but every roofer needs to have problem solving skills, some just don't.

FYI not all roofers are drunks and drug addicts. In fact now a fair amount including us have drug testing.


Now if you only "saved" $1,000 between doing it your self and hiring someone, that someone was entirely too cheap.
Well....I did rip off 3 layers on my house back in 05.....replaced all the Fascia...and about 2 rows of the eaves.....not difficult....just pure grunt work....

Though I'm at a loss as to where you got the "drunks and drug addicts" from.....I was making a joke about 'me' drinking a beer between each few rows. I don't like heights....last thing I'm going to do is have any alcohol in my while climbing around on the roof.....about par to drinking and driving....
 

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#13 · (Edited)


I recently received a quote to replace my roof for $7500. I live in Michigan. Seems a little high for this simple gable. My house is 1600 sq. ft. with a 4/12 pitch. I also received a quote to add 8" more cellulose insulation for $1900. That seems ridiculous. All from the same company, RAM Residential. A local company in business since 1986. The salesman also stated that materials are now costing just about as much as labor. Is this true? Is this too much?

We are also getting another estimate tomorrow from Mr. Roof. We have two layers that they have to tear off and they estimated replacing two sheets of sheathing. Also new can vents, stacks and boots, flashing, 6 ft. of ice and water shield. Also with Certainteed shingles.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 
#16 ·


I recently received a quote to replace my roof for $7500. I live in Michigan. Seems a little high for this simple gable. My house is 1600 sq. ft. with a 4/12 pitch. I also received a quote to add 8" more cellulose insulation for $1900. That seems ridiculous. All from the same company, RAM Residential. A local company in business since 1986. The salesman also stated that materials are now costing just about as much as labor. Is this true? Is this too much?

We are also getting another estimate tomorrow from Mr. Roof. We have two layers that they have to tear off and they estimated replacing two sheets of sheathing. Also new can vents, stacks and boots, flashing, 6 ft. of ice and water shield. Also with Certainteed shingles.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
As mentioned in the beginning of this thread which I started, different regions will have different pricing and different building codes, etc.

$7,500 is a steal compared to what I would charge for that home. I'm just assuming that your roofing area is 1,500 square feet. My labour costs by itself without materials would be around $15,000 with two layers of shingles to tear off. But here in Canada everything costs more.

Anyone who isn't willing to replace the existing flashing, plumbing stacks and vents is a hack. Replacing these systems is best for both the consumer and contractor. The contractor gets to charge more for labour, the consumer gets a proper installation and everyone is happy.

Ice and water shield along the eaves and around roofing protrusions is mandatory depending on where you live, according to the building code.
 
#18 ·
Their license and insurance was one of the first thing RAM told me about when we interviewed them. I'm hoping for the same professionalism from Mr. Roof when they come today for an interview and estimate. I don't care as much about price as much as the things you ^ mentioned.

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#20 · (Edited)
I rechecked the quote they gave us and it is $7000 instead. Definitely not paying them $1700 to add insulation when I can do it myself for $400, though. RAM also quoted us $900 to replace all the gutters and downspouts. I think that is a fair price. Heck I'll pay anyone to get up on my roof. I definitely don't like heights.

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#26 ·
RoofingTrades said:
$15,000 includes tear off both layers of shingles and existing roof deck down to the roof truss, installation of new Huber Zip System 5/8-inch OSB, CertainTeed WeatherGuard HT ice and water shield around eaves and roof protrusions, GAF/Elk Deck Armour synthetic underlayment, CertainTeed Landmark Triple Laminate shingles and replacement of all flashings with 24-gauge S-Lock. Everything explained above is my basic roof. My company only markets towards the very, very high end roofing market. Regarding my staff, I do not employ labourers. I have minimum 1st year apprentices. All of my staff have minimum Occupational First Aid Level 3. All of my staff are accredited through the regional training centres of the CRCA. Everyone in my company undergoes bi-annual drug screening. My company is also COR certified. Entry level wage in my company is $20.00/HR for a 1st year apprentice while my top wage for my foreman is $45.00/HR. Minimum wage in British Columbia is $10.25, Alberta is $9.95, Saskatchewan $10.20 and in Manitoba is $10.45. Legally I can not adjust my staff's wages regardless of the region I am working in. By the way, even with my staff of six this would not be a one day job. If you can finish this off in one day I would love to do an accredited inspection on your roof after and point out all the issues you'll have further down the road. I'm not promoting myself, I'm simply explaining the why up here that roof would cost $15,000 from me, not including materials.
You said 15000 for labor. So I'm thinking about 12,500 american dollars.

Maybe you do different things but if six skilled guys can each get off four square and four on a day, then they aren't very skilled.

Also as a note, majority of our roofs are Certainteed 5-Star warranty jobs meaning the manufacturer inspects each job. We've never had one fail their inspection. I'm sure you know that as you seem to use CT products.

I also don't go overkill and replace perfectly good sheathing just for the fun of it.

From the products you mentioned I'm sure you build very good roofs with quality materials.
 
#28 ·
In my location crew there are no super crews that knock out a roof in a day. We run small crews, 2-3 guys tops, roofs take about 2 days and longer depending on the size and the amount of wood replacement needed. I guess living where the weather is not as cooperative those large crews are required.

$7,500 is about were we are on a roof like that, not counting wood replacement.

We only do about 20% comp, mostly do stone coated steel and SS.
 
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