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Old 09-08-2008, 10:46 PM   #1
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roofing procedure questions


We have narrowed our quotes down to 2 roofers. There are several differences and so we need to decide which is best.

Roofer #1 vs Roofer #2
  1. Tamko vs GAF/Elk shingles? 30 yr diminsional shinlges.
  2. Hand nail vs air nailed?
  3. 15# felt vs 30# felt
  4. no drip edge vs drip edge
Another question I have is as I drive along and look at roofs I see black streaks on roofs, what is that and what causes it? Is there any way to prevent?

On one quote I have "saw out brick and morter on chimney and install new alum metal counter flashing" does that sound correct?

Thanks for your assistance.


Last edited by geema; 09-09-2008 at 12:27 PM. Reason: additional questions
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:57 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geema View Post
We have narrowed our quotes down to 2 roofers. There are several differences and so we need to decide which is best.

Roofer #1 vs Roofer #2
  1. Tamko vs GAF/Elk shingles? 30 yr diminsional shinlges.
  2. Hand nail vs air nailed?
  3. 15# felt vs 30# felt
  4. no drip edge vs drip edge
Another question I have is as I drive along and look at roofs I see black streaks on roofs, what is that and what causes it? Is there any way to prevent?

On one quote I have "saw out brick and morter on chimney and install new alum metal counter flashing" does that sound correct?

Thanks for your assistance.

1. Tamko or GAF = either or.
2. Hand or Gun = either or.
3. #15 or #30 = #30 is better, but #15 works.
4. drip or No Drip = can be done with out, but leaves your roof more prone to eave damage from precipt- backing up out of gutters, and increasing chances of wind damage to your 'aluminum' facia coverings on the rakes.

As far as the black streaks,both shingles come with AR protection.

I have installed counter flashings on chimneys with face fasteners,
with out cutting into the brick, so it can be done, but the proper method is cut into the brick.

Both roofers appear to have given you a fair propasal, one is more Old school "hand nailer", one is more up to date with things.

Proper installment of the materials 'either or' is the number one key to a quality roofing system.

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Old 09-09-2008, 06:43 AM   #3
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I agree with SlyFox on the 4 points.

The most important thing is the expertise of the installers.

Check references and go to a job in progress and ask previous home owners if they were satisfied.

I can not over emphasize those points.

Also, make sure that every detail of the job is in writing.

Everything should be in writing, including brand names of materials to be used, who gets the permits, daily clean up, typles of drip edge metals to be used and where.

You did not mention the ventilation.

That is the most important part of the entire roof system

What and how much Intake Ventilation do you have and are they proposing to add? 90% of homes do not have enough.

What brand and how many feet of ridge vent are they using? The should usually use Ridge Vents, unless you home style does not work with it.

Improper Ventilation is the # 1 reason given for voiding of the manufacturers long term warranty and Really Does Make A Great Big Difference.

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Old 09-09-2008, 12:14 PM   #4
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roofing procedure questions


Both of the roofers have good recommendations. Each by a friend as well.
I have not been to a job site, that would be a good thing to do. Many consumers such as me may be very happy with the way it appears, the fact that the installers were nice and seemed to do their job but how would a john q public really know? What should we look for? I have been burned before and I did everything right!

I do not have ridge vents and have requested them and was told by both that they would not do the job if they were not able to put in ridge vents. The brand is Cobra and it is a hard plastic type with vents on both sides, I know there was another word with the cobra maybe cobra 3 or something but it is not on the quote. That is something else I will need to remedy. I do have eave vents and had an old electric vent fan not currently working and a whirly bird that is working. I have asked that these both be removed. I hope that is correct. It was suggested that the electric from the vent could be used to hardwire a fire alarm to my attic.

We were concerned over the brand of shingle as I had 2 roofers say they would not install Tamko shingles. I think they are pretty much all the same and that the installation would be most important. Is this correct or is there a reason to be leary of tamko? That is the only shingle this roofer installs.

That brings me to my concern over air nailing. I would think it would be very easy to go too fast with an air nailer and miss the appropriate line or not get the nail in all the way and not bother to go back and nail it in properly. Is this a problem or am I over analyzing?

The other concern was the felt paper. In asking the roofer about the 15#. He said the only reason to use the 30# was if you had like grooved boards for the substrate roof. It would require a heavier paper. He said the tamko shingle company only requires 15# so why pay the higher price. I don't think there is a tremendous price difference in the two. Do I need to insist on the 30# or will it make that much difference? I did have a roofer quote the new ppg covering but I don't know much about that.

Is there a particular drip edge that I need to look into? I just had all my facia boards replaced about a 1 1/2-2 yrs ago. I don't want to have to do that again.

How do I know what the manufacturers warranty requirements are and if they are installing the roof accordingly? I have heard that it is very hard to deal with the warranties if anything goes wrong anyway. Both the roofers have a 5 year labor warranty. One of them comes out annually and inspects the roof and cleans out the gutters as a part of the quote.

Thanks for all your advice and help. It is kind of hard when you shoot from the hip at a blurry object!

Last edited by geema; 09-09-2008 at 11:36 PM. Reason: add to
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Old 09-10-2008, 05:58 AM   #5
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The day is coming when both #30 and #15 felt papers will become obsolete as far as underlayment use in shingle roofs,
but it's not because they don't work but rather the newly dezigned synthetics simply work so much better,
so #15 or #30 really is not a big issue in your situation being that at this time both are accepted by shingle manufacturers.

A roofer with nothing but speed in mind can fasten his/her shingles poorly no matter if thier swinging a hammer or shooting a gun,
gun nails hold as well as hand nails if properly installed.

Every shingle made has had call backs 'everyone', so there is no #1 in my opinion, and there are three reasons 'in my experience' for why roofing contractors refuse to install any one material,
1) Lack of Experience, knowledge of lawsuits, re-called materials etc.
2) Purchase the same brand everytime and get a good discount from thier supllier for doing so 'Bulk Purchasing'.
3) They allow thier personal prefrences to interfere with thier business.

I personally would use Tamko over GAF, but I install both on a regular basis, last 5 jobs have been 2 Tamko, 1 GAF and 1 Atlas.

There is no golden question/response that Ed or I can give you that will make your final decision more clear.
Look at work they have completed,
Get everything in writing,
Check for proper insurances,
Take pictures, ask them to as well,
Contact your local roofing supply house and ask for a reference on both.

Good Luck.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:07 AM   #6
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Thanks for all your help. I think it is coming down to my physical inspection of previous jobs and things such as how the flashing around the chimney is handled.

Should I be asking about the new underlayments? If so which ones inparticular? I think I read that ppe was better than peg is that correct?
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:47 AM   #7
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#15 $3.00 per square.
#30 $6.00 per square
Syns $12.00 per square

I'm re-roofing my personal home either this fall or next,
and I will be using #30 felt.
Not because it's cheaper, but because it's a time tested/proven product,
and will remain intact for the 25 - 30 years that the shingles i layover it will last.

If I was installing slate, tile, metal, etc., I would be using one of the synthetic products out there because they have the additional life span the roof sytems like those have.
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Old 09-11-2008, 11:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyfox View Post
#15 $3.00 per square.
#30 $6.00 per square
Syns $12.00 per square
Sly,

I think you need to check your Current pricing on the 15# and 30#.

I am paying about double for that and have been for about the past 3-4 weeks.

I always use 30# felt. It is cheap insurance while we are working and if there is ever a shingle that got blown off, leaving the felt paper as the only protection for your home for the time being.

Ed
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Old 09-11-2008, 05:27 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer View Post
Sly,

I think you need to check your Current pricing on the 15# and 30#.

I am paying about double for that and have been for about the past 3-4 weeks.

I always use 30# felt. It is cheap insurance while we are working and if there is ever a shingle that got blown off, leaving the felt paper as the only protection for your home for the time being.

Ed
Yeah that was quoted off a 07' price list, the prices on felt hasn't doubled here tho, more like up 30% or so.
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Old 09-11-2008, 05:41 PM   #10
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Thanks to you all. Guess I better get on this before the prices increase even more. I heard they have gone up aobut 8% in the last few weeks.
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Old 09-11-2008, 05:46 PM   #11
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They are approaching a 100 % increase since this time last year and with the felt, I paid around $ 24.00 to $ 26.00 per roll just a few weeks ago.

One week before that, it was still at $ 13.86 per roll.

Ed

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