Roofer's Way.....or My Way??? Advice Please - DIY Chatroom

oldgrunt · 11-13-2008, 11:48 AM

I have selected a roofer to replace my roof.

Things we agree on:
1 Remove existing shingles and felt to bare wood.
1.5 Cut any siding to roof for 1" clearance.
2 Pull any proud nails, and renail all decking.
3 Remove 4 turbines and cover holes with 2'x4'
decking piece.
4 Close gable vent.
5 Grace I&W in all valleys.
6 Copper pipe flanges.
7 Certainteed SwiftStart starter shingles all
around perimeter.
8 Certainteed Roofers Select Felt using cap nails.
9 Certainteed Landmark TL shingles and Shadow Ridge
ridge caps.
10 Hand nail shingles with 1 1/4" nails.
11 Install ShingleVent II ridge vent on all ridges
and dormers using 2 1/2" nails.
12 Closed valley.
13 Build cricket for chimney.
14 Cut reglet and flash/counterflash chimney. NP1.
15 Install diverters at all roof/wall connections.
16 Clean gutters, add screws to 16"OC.
17 Clean up and haul off all waste with dump truck.
18 Payment at end of project.

Points of consideration:
1 I think drip edge on rakes and gutter apron on
eaves. He uses neither, instead overhangs
rakes 1 1/2" and eaves 2". (Currently there is
no drip edge or gutter apron, and no leaks.)
It is rarely used in this area.
I am concerned this overhang at eaves could
interfere with possible future gutter covers.
2 I am considering I&W all around the perimeter,
as well as around dormers, at wall/roof
intersections, and around pipes and chimney.
He says not necessary, currently none used.
Like drip edge, rarely used in this area.
3 I think 4x4x8 copper step flashing, he says reuse
(good) aluminum step flashing.
4 I suggested 8penny ring shank nails for the
decking 7/16 OSB, he uses 2" staples.

The roofer has been in business for 17 years, and has 18 years experience prior to that with a well respected local company. Many high end builders use him. He has a 5 man very experienced crew including himself doing the work, and does not sub. Insured, good references, prompt, and courteous.

He has spent more than 6 hours with me, and I am very comfortable that he knows his business and is who I want to use.

Should I press my wishes, or rely on his experience to do the job correctly? I don't want to be a horses behind trying to overkill and end up running him off with my meddling. I know he is the pro, not me.

By the way, we almost never have snow or ice.

Any recommendations (chill out, take a pill, go on vacation, etc.) are appreciated.

Pictures at link

http://s508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/oldm60grunt/

Thanks in advance,

Alan

tinner666 · 11-13-2008, 12:00 PM

We roofers argue this all the time. I and W is a great substitute for craftsmanship in MANY companies. In some, it's a 'back-up' and just there to cover ALL the bases. Same fro DE. Shingles should go over DE about an inch so you're back at 1 1/2".
Me, I fly either way, but learned when felt wasn't necessary in the 60's. I'm confident with no felt or I&W along along/around penetrations. Depends on the roofer.

PS. Many say their call-backs slowed or dried up after using I&W everywhere. What does that tell you?

tinner666 · 11-13-2008, 12:01 PM

If he DOESN'T take a bucket of cement onto a shingle roof, you should be OK.

OldNBroken · 11-13-2008, 12:52 PM

We do certain things differently in different areas of the country. It sounds like you are very confident about this person. If he has that kind of a reputation and has been doing it that long in your area, I would say trust his advice and let him do his job. We always appreciate that.

**Ed the Roofer** · 11-13-2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldgrunt

I have selected a roofer to replace my roof.

Things we agree on:
1 Remove existing shingles and felt to bare wood.
1.5 Cut any siding to roof for 1" clearance.
2 Pull any proud nails, and renail all decking.
3 Remove 4 turbines and cover holes with 2'x4'
decking piece.
4 Close gable vent.
5 Grace I&W in all valleys.
6 Copper pipe flanges.
7 Certainteed SwiftStart starter shingles all
around perimeter.
8 Certainteed Roofers Select Felt using cap nails.
9 Certainteed Landmark TL shingles and Shadow Ridge
ridge caps.
10 Hand nail shingles with 1 1/4" nails.
11 Install ShingleVent II ridge vent on all ridges
and dormers using 2 1/2" nails.
12 Closed valley.
13 Build cricket for chimney.
14 Cut reglet and flash/counterflash chimney. NP1.
15 Install diverters at all roof/wall connections.
16 Clean gutters, add screws to 16"OC.
17 Clean up and haul off all waste with dump truck.
18 Payment at end of project.

Points of consideration:
1 I think drip edge on rakes and gutter apron on
eaves. He uses neither, instead overhangs
rakes 1 1/2" and eaves 2". (Currently there is
no drip edge or gutter apron, and no leaks.)
It is rarely used in this area.
I am concerned this overhang at eaves could
interfere with possible future gutter covers.

2 I am considering I&W all around the perimeter,
as well as around dormers, at wall/roof
intersections, and around pipes and chimney.
He says not necessary, currently none used.
Like drip edge, rarely used in this area.

3 I think 4x4x8 copper step flashing, he says reuse
(good) aluminum step flashing.

4 I suggested 8penny ring shank nails for the
decking 7/16 OSB, he uses 2" staples.

The roofer has been in business for 17 years, and has 18 years experience prior to that with a well respected local company. Many high end builders use him. He has a 5 man very experienced crew including himself doing the work, and does not sub. Insured, good references, prompt, and courteous.

He has spent more than 6 hours with me, and I am very comfortable that he knows his business and is who I want to use.

Should I press my wishes, or rely on his experience to do the job correctly? I don't want to be a horses behind trying to overkill and end up running him off with my meddling. I know he is the pro, not me.

By the way, we almost never have snow or ice.

Any recommendations (chill out, take a pill, go on vacation, etc.) are appreciated.

Pictures at link

http://s508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/oldm60grunt/

Thanks in advance,

Alan

Very good specifications so far. You have a pretty good guy.

Points of consideration:
1 I think drip edge on rakes and gutter apron on
eaves. He uses neither, instead overhangs
rakes 1 1/2" and eaves 2". (Currently there is
no drip edge or gutter apron, and no leaks.)
It is rarely used in this area.
I am concerned this overhang at eaves could
interfere with possible future gutter covers.

I prefer the Gutter Apron style Drip Edge sheet metal flashings to preserve the fascia boards from drippage leaks.

2 I am considering I&W all around the perimeter,
as well as around dormers, at wall/roof
intersections, and around pipes and chimney.
He says not necessary, currently none used.
Like drip edge, rarely used in this area.

6 of on and 1/2 dozen of the other. Better caution, but not necessary if done correctly, but I use it around the curbs of al 4 sides of every skylight and other potentially hazardous leak prone areas to err on the side of caution for the minimal additional expense.

3 I think 4x4x8 copper step flashing, he says reuse
(good) aluminum step flashing.

Aluminum is just fine, unless you are in contact with other copper metals.

4 I suggested 8penny ring shank nails for the
decking 7/16 OSB, he uses 2" staples.

8 Penny Ring Shank is the best. Staples suck big time for decking, except to "Stitch" some minorly buckled horizontal edges.

4-Ply Exterior Grade CDX Plywood Sheathing instead of any OSB, but if you do use OSB, use the 15/32" instead of the 7/16". There is a BIG difference in the ratings.

Ed

oldgrunt · 11-23-2008, 11:43 AM

Thanks Frank, OldNBroken, and Ed for the input.

After listening to advice and discussion with roofer, we are doubling the ridge and hip caps and changing to 2" nails on hips, and 3" on ridge.

Renailing decking with 8D ringshank nails.

Installing new aluminum flashing, drip edge on rakes, and gutter apron at eaves.

installing leaf relief gutter covers.

On the pool house, cutting away the lower osb all around which was cut short and left a 3-4 inch gap between decking and facia, and installing a 24" wide piece that bridges that gap.

Changing overhang to 3/4" at rake and eaves.

The roofer also said that I could personally help with the install for only a minor 20 per cent upcharge.

I also spent about an hour at a current worksite observing the install and talking with the GC. Everything was neat and orderly, all equipment in good working order, no trash laying around.

All the crew seemed to have their special jobs, and worked well together and individually efficiently and without undue guidance.

Lot of experience and knowledge on that roof.

Thanks again,

Alan

AaronB · 11-23-2008, 12:40 PM

2 Pull any proud nails, and renail all decking. What are proud nails? We pull all roofing nails.

3 Remove 4 turbines and cover holes with 2'x4' decking piece. Why not use a full sheet? It is better faster, cheaper.

5 Grace I&W in all valleys. How much IWS? How aout at the eaves? If you need it in the valleys, you need it at the eaves.

These are in the wrong order:
6 Copper pipe flanges.
7 Certainteed SwiftStart starter shingles all
around perimeter.
8 Certainteed Roofers Select Felt using cap nails.
9 Certainteed Landmark TL shingles and Shadow Ridge
ridge caps.
If this is his construction schedule/ order of operations, find someone new.

15 Install diverters at all roof/wall connections. What are these for?

AaronB · 11-23-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldgrunt

I have selected a roofer to replace my roof.

Things we agree on:
1 Remove existing shingles and felt to bare wood.
1.5 Cut any siding to roof for 1" clearance.
2 Pull any proud nails, and renail all decking.
3 Remove 4 turbines and cover holes with 2'x4'
decking piece.
4 Close gable vent.
5 Grace I&W in all valleys.
6 Copper pipe flanges.
7 Certainteed SwiftStart starter shingles all
around perimeter.
8 Certainteed Roofers Select Felt using cap nails.
9 Certainteed Landmark TL shingles and Shadow Ridge
ridge caps.
10 Hand nail shingles with 1 1/4" nails.
11 Install ShingleVent II ridge vent on all ridges
and dormers using 2 1/2" nails.
12 Closed valley.
13 Build cricket for chimney.
14 Cut reglet and flash/counterflash chimney. NP1.
15 Install diverters at all roof/wall connections.
16 Clean gutters, add screws to 16"OC.
17 Clean up and haul off all waste with dump truck.
18 Payment at end of project.

Points of consideration:
1 I think drip edge on rakes and gutter apron on
eaves. He uses neither, instead overhangs
rakes 1 1/2" and eaves 2". (Currently there is
no drip edge or gutter apron, and no leaks.)
It is rarely used in this area.
I am concerned this overhang at eaves could
interfere with possible future gutter covers.
2 I am considering I&W all around the perimeter,
as well as around dormers, at wall/roof
intersections, and around pipes and chimney.
He says not necessary, currently none used.
Like drip edge, rarely used in this area.
3 I think 4x4x8 copper step flashing, he says reuse
(good) aluminum step flashing.
4 I suggested 8penny ring shank nails for the
decking 7/16 OSB, he uses 2" staples.

The roofer has been in business for 17 years, and has 18 years experience prior to that with a well respected local company. Many high end builders use him. He has a 5 man very experienced crew including himself doing the work, and does not sub. Insured, good references, prompt, and courteous.

He has spent more than 6 hours with me, and I am very comfortable that he knows his business and is who I want to use.

Should I press my wishes, or rely on his experience to do the job correctly? I don't want to be a horses behind trying to overkill and end up running him off with my meddling. I know he is the pro, not me.

By the way, we almost never have snow or ice.

Any recommendations (chill out, take a pill, go on vacation, etc.) are appreciated.

Pictures at link

http://s508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/oldm60grunt/

Thanks in advance,

Alan

Alan, TELL him how you want it done, and have him add it to the price of the job. Its that simple. Its your home, your project, your money, and your new roof. If you want copper flashings, IWS all over the place and drip edge with gutter apron, then you should get it.

If he does a lot of work for builders, then the name of that game is cheeeeeap. He may not know any other way.

oldgrunt · 11-23-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronB

2 Pull any proud nails, and renail all decking. What are proud nails? We pull all roofing nails.

This is my description/term for decking nails that are sticking up, not the roofing/shingle nails which will all be pulled. Idea is to pull them also, rather than to pound back down.

3 Remove 4 turbines and cover holes with 2'x4' decking piece. Why not use a full sheet? It is better faster, cheaper.

I had specified a quarter sheet secured to 4 rafters instead of a smaller patch to preserve structural integrity. I had not thought of the time involved to cut the piece out as opposed to just replacing the whole sheet, which I agree makes more sense.

5 Grace I&W in all valleys. How much IWS? How aout at the eaves? If you need it in the valleys, you need it at the eaves.

36" in the valleys. As we have little to no ice, I did not see much need at the eaves, especially with a 10/12 roof pitch.
Given this, should I still use it at the eaves?

These are in the wrong order:
6 Copper pipe flanges.
7 Certainteed SwiftStart starter shingles all
around perimeter.
8 Certainteed Roofers Select Felt using cap nails.
9 Certainteed Landmark TL shingles and Shadow Ridge
ridge caps.
If this is his construction schedule/ order of operations, find someone new.

That is just the way I keyed the steps, not a sequential list.

15 Install diverters at all roof/wall connections. What are these for?

These are the kickout/diverters that are used at the lower end of a roof/wall intersection to kick water away from the siding and into the gutters. Dryflekt would be an example of this.

Thanks Aaron for the input, it is most appreciated. I am comfortable with the roofer selected, and that we will/have come to a meeting of the minds. He is accommodating to my suggestions. I just personally enjoy learning as much as possible about this project in particular, and roofing in general.

CrpntrFrk · 11-23-2008, 01:47 PM

I did not read much of your thread because there was no need to to make my point. My point is this;
You need to be honest with your contractor as he needs to be honest with you. It seams you know you are a bid picky and that is fine. Tell him how you are and he will be more understanding. Otherwise you might come off as a "know it all dyi guy". WE HATE THAT! But if you are nice about what you want then he probably will be nice in return.
We are finishing a mid size remodel for a couple and she tells us every time she is very picky but after she tells us what she is concerned with she tells us what a great job we are doing.

the roofing god · 11-24-2008, 07:35 AM

Agree with all points,should be 1 1/2" roof nails,with 1 3/4" for caps(2" is ok),I would prefer Ice + water shield to be installed at the fascia eave ,after 1st installing a 3x3" backflashing behind the gutter,
Remember it`s Ice +WATER shield,when the gutters are full,and rain water backs up,it will be a problem if you haven`t done this

the roofing god · 11-24-2008, 07:39 AM

be sure he`s nailing the shingles in the right place on the line,and nowhere near where the seam of the next shingle will be

bluefitness · 11-24-2008, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinner666

If he DOESN'T take a bucket of cement onto a shingle roof, you should be OK.

I've heard people say this before. In Florida, felt is run under the drip edges at the eves and rakes and a thin layer of cement is run around the perimeter. We also do not over hang the shingles. I guess this is for high wind areas.

chad4290 · 11-28-2008, 04:43 PM

if you want to spend the money you are the customer. staples are good though better holding power 1/2 " construction staples