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Old 11-27-2010, 11:03 AM   #1
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roofers responsibility


I s the roofers responsible to protect or cover the roof when it rain during the night time or mid night?

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Old 11-27-2010, 01:13 PM   #2
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roofers responsibility


Once they have started the job, yes, they are responsible for anything they have touched. If your roof leaked prior, or in an area they have definitely not been around then, no, they would not be responsible unless they specifically said they would make sure it wouldn't leak.

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Old 11-27-2010, 01:14 PM   #3
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roofers responsibility


Via the Roofing Contractors obligation to conform with their General Liability policy, they have a duty and obligation to provide adequate and reasonable care at covering the roof to prevent damage from any forseeable storm events.

To the loosest ethical standards, that would generally imply that at least the entire roof should be covered up with the felt paper, but that would not necessarily provide 100% water-tight protection from a long lasting slow continuous rain or a storm event with heavy volumes of rain and/or heavy winds associated with it.

I include in writing, as part of my contractual responsibilities, that we will provide any over-night protection when required to proceed with the work the next day.

Most contractors rely only on the felt paper and do not have the additional labor costs included in their "Bid" to be able to provide that same security, but many times the more efficient and ethical contractor may also be the more expensive one.

Ed
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Old 11-27-2010, 01:21 PM   #4
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Dammit, Ed always explains things so much more eloquent than me...
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:28 PM   #5
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roofers responsibility


Depends on if it's a real Roofing Contractor or just hired weekend help.

If you are paying a Contract, then the above is correct. Anything else, you are responsible for your own house.
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Old 11-28-2010, 06:38 AM   #6
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Just because they covered everything with a tarp doe's not mean they did all they could, tarps need to be installed properly in order to be secure the same way felts & other underlayments need to be.

If your roof leaked during the process of it being re-roofed there is a high probability the roofers will be liable for damages.
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Old 11-28-2010, 08:29 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyfox View Post
If your roof leaked during the process of it being re-roofed there is a high probability the roofers will be liable for damages.
THIS is why this forum is so great! Real pros that give more than opinions.

Thanks, Slyfox!
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Old 11-28-2010, 08:44 AM   #8
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Actually Ed is right, all that is required by Contractors liability is an attempt to secure the job. Sure there is some jobs done better than others, but there is a minimum just like any code.

Still would like to know if a real pro was hired here.
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:56 AM   #9
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One other point to be considered, which was relayed to me directly from an adjuster on a minor leak claim.

I'll give you the example of what occurred.

We were doing a tear-off of a 12/12 cape cod with 2 or 3 layers of asphalt shingles on a day that Zero rain was predicted.

During the tear-off, it was discovered that ALL of the old plywood decking had become severely delaminated necessitating full replacement.

This had occurred due to NO insulation baffle vent chutes being installed, so the existing roof insulation impeded any air flow, plus, since this was a vaulted ceiling structure and the previous Roofers had only used a minimal amount of musroom style static air vents instead of a continuous ridge vent, there was not enough exhaust ventilation available and not in the correct placements to promote air flowage.

During the course of plywood decking removal and replacement, a storm just popped up out of nowhere.

We were able to get all of the plywood temporarily nailed back down in place and also cover it all with 30 # felt and also cover the entire structure in the front where 2 dormers where protruding through, with new tarps solidly secured with batten boards and nails.

3-4 separate waves of severe storms encoached the area, starting at mid-afternoon and re-convening at about 3-4 hour intervals, with the last 2 occurring through the middle of the night.

No leaks were observed when I stopped by and checked with the home owners at the latter portion of the evening.

But, when they woke up, there was a leak which eminated from alongside one of the dormers, flowing through the upstairs bedroom wall and eventually penetrating the downstairs living room ceiling paint, creating a water bubble in the ceiling drywall.

What had occurred, was that the continuous barrage of wind gusts up to 60 mph had finally loosened the bottom corner of the one tarp that encapsulated one of the front dormers, allowing an egress point alongside the dormers siding, directly under the valley.

I was willing to pay out of pocket for the drywall and painting repairs, but the husband insisted that an insurance claim be filed, conflicting with his wife's view of getting the problem taken care of as expeditiously as possible with my interior repair subcontractor.

When the insurance claims adjuster came out and reviewed the In-Job Progress photos that I had taken, proving that we did in fact take more than adequate Due Diligence to ensure that the premises were left water-tight, I was informed that the claim was denied.

The reasonong behind their denial, was that Due Diligence and not Negligent Contracting Practices were followed and that during the course of such a major over-haul and roof removal project, that the Home Owners themselves must inherently assume a burden of the risk for the potential hazards that may incur. The husbands concern was that of potential future Mold potential and wanted to ensure adequate protection and the proper paper trail of events and actions taken to mitigate the possible hazard, which is a valid concern to be considered.

So, in that case, the Home Owners were required to place the claim with Their Own Home Owners Insurance Company and be liable for the damages and their own deductible.

So, it is not always so cut and dry as to who and why the contractor should just assume the responsibility of any potential damages.

Ed
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Old 11-28-2010, 12:03 PM   #10
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Thanks Ed. And people wonder why those of us with Contractor's License's pay the insurance premium's we have to pay. Case closed.
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:27 PM   #11
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roofers responsibility


good info here. thanks
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Old 11-29-2010, 06:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJW View Post
Actually Ed is right, all that is required by Contractors liability is an attempt to secure the job. Sure there is some jobs done better than others, but there is a minimum just like any code.

Still would like to know if a real pro was hired here.
I didn't suggest Ed was wrong, I just think the portion of his statement was misleading, just because a roofer/s covers the roof in tarp doe's not mean they did all they could.
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Old 11-29-2010, 06:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer View Post
One other point to be considered, which was relayed to me directly from an adjuster on a minor leak claim.

I'll give you the example of what occurred.

We were doing a tear-off of a 12/12 cape cod with 2 or 3 layers of asphalt shingles on a day that Zero rain was predicted.

During the tear-off, it was discovered that ALL of the old plywood decking had become severely delaminated necessitating full replacement.

This had occurred due to NO insulation baffle vent chutes being installed, so the existing roof insulation impeded any air flow, plus, since this was a vaulted ceiling structure and the previous Roofers had only used a minimal amount of musroom style static air vents instead of a continuous ridge vent, there was not enough exhaust ventilation available and not in the correct placements to promote air flowage.

During the course of plywood decking removal and replacement, a storm just popped up out of nowhere.

We were able to get all of the plywood temporarily nailed back down in place and also cover it all with 30 # felt and also cover the entire structure in the front where 2 dormers where protruding through, with new tarps solidly secured with batten boards and nails.

3-4 separate waves of severe storms encoached the area, starting at mid-afternoon and re-convening at about 3-4 hour intervals, with the last 2 occurring through the middle of the night.

No leaks were observed when I stopped by and checked with the home owners at the latter portion of the evening.

But, when they woke up, there was a leak which eminated from alongside one of the dormers, flowing through the upstairs bedroom wall and eventually penetrating the downstairs living room ceiling paint, creating a water bubble in the ceiling drywall.

What had occurred, was that the continuous barrage of wind gusts up to 60 mph had finally loosened the bottom corner of the one tarp that encapsulated one of the front dormers, allowing an egress point alongside the dormers siding, directly under the valley.

I was willing to pay out of pocket for the drywall and painting repairs, but the husband insisted that an insurance claim be filed, conflicting with his wife's view of getting the problem taken care of as expeditiously as possible with my interior repair subcontractor.

When the insurance claims adjuster came out and reviewed the In-Job Progress photos that I had taken, proving that we did in fact take more than adequate Due Diligence to ensure that the premises were left water-tight, I was informed that the claim was denied.

The reasonong behind their denial, was that Due Diligence and not Negligent Contracting Practices were followed and that during the course of such a major over-haul and roof removal project, that the Home Owners themselves must inherently assume a burden of the risk for the potential hazards that may incur. The husbands concern was that of potential future Mold potential and wanted to ensure adequate protection and the proper paper trail of events and actions taken to mitigate the possible hazard, which is a valid concern to be considered.

So, in that case, the Home Owners were required to place the claim with Their Own Home Owners Insurance Company and be liable for the damages and their own deductible.

So, it is not always so cut and dry as to who and why the contractor should just assume the responsibility of any potential damages.

Ed
You obviously did all you could in this situation Ed, but, it's not because you had tarps, it's because you had experience.

I was in the process of re-roofing a home last month, tore the 33 square off Wed- and left it over night under felt.
Roofers four houses down on the other side of the road tore off the roof they were on, roofed half and left the remaining set under felt & tarp for the night.
That night it rained a fair amount "I knew it was coming" and we had 10 too 15 mph winds, when I got to work the next morning I had a big brownish/orange tarp laying in the front yard of the house I was re-roofing,
it was not mine, was the roofers from down the road and that roof had a fair amount of weather make it through their underlayment and into the home.
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:27 PM   #14
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roofers responsibility


Uh-huh. If the weather looks threatening, t/o only as much as you can reasonably replace before the potential bad weather. When you're as certain as you can be that the next days weather will allow you to finish, complete the job.

Your insurance may or may not cover your "work product" no matter how confident you are that it will. Losing a few productive hours and dollars when taking the safe route is alot less costly than paying an attorney to defend you from a law suit.

One more CYA recommendation: When siging a contract with a customer, always complete a checklist that includes the following question to the customer, 'Have you ever had any leaks or other problems in the past?' If the customer says yes, make note of the dates and location(s) then have the customer sign the checklist before including it in your job jacket. It is also a good idea to do a visual inspection of the interior to check for previous leaks that the customer may have "forgotten" about.

Out of three roof leak calls in the last twenty or so years, only one was my (my roofers) fault - a small drip around a skylight - easy fix and no damage. The other two could have cost me thousands had I not had a signed checklist to prove that the leaks were not related to the work I did.
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:53 AM   #15
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An excellent rule for inexperienced up and coming contractors....NEVER REMOVE WHAT YOU CANNOT PUT BACK!!!!!!!!!!!

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