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Old 08-29-2012, 10:21 AM   #1
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Roof Underlayment


I have a choice between two Certainteed underlayments: Roofer Select (included), or Diamond Deck synthetic for $600 more.

I like the sound of the Diamond Deck - less chance of buckling, and if a shingle blows off in a bad storm (which we sometimes get), it protects the wood. I saw a piece of a similar product from another roofer, and you could not tear it. Also, it weighs less than 1/2 of the felt.

Also, not sure if the light color of the Diamond Deck helps reduce heat gain installed under a Moire Black shingle!

Opinions please!

Thanks,
Al


Last edited by AlleyG; 08-29-2012 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 08-29-2012, 01:49 PM   #2
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Roof Underlayment


I'll let the roofer chime in about your best choice, but the color of the underlayment has absolutely no relevance to heat gain coefficients. The only area of a roof where color affects heat gain is the exposed shingle surface.

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Old 08-29-2012, 01:55 PM   #3
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Roof Underlayment


If you want a cooler roof then pick a lighter color.
Roof venting will also have a big deal to do with it.
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:01 PM   #4
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Roof Underlayment


The color/heat gain thing is pretty much irrelevent, I just threw that in there as it would be a nice bonus if it helped with that at all.

Al
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Old 08-29-2012, 05:08 PM   #5
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Roof Underlayment


Hi Alley, you could spend the extra cash on the synthetic underlay if you want. But I am still pulling off 20-30 year roofs with tar paper that is still intact and still doing its job properly.
The biggest benefit of the more expensive Diamond Deck is you can underlay the roof and leave it for a couple months if you had to before shingling it.
But if it is getting roofed right away, I would save the money and go with Roofers select. Again, if roofed right away Roofers Select won't buckle, and even if it gets wet before shingling, let it dry and it lays flat.
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Old 08-29-2012, 11:03 PM   #6
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Roof Underlayment


I use synthetics underlayment almost exclusively. If I did use felt, I would use at least a 30lb felt. The reason is a selfish one. I feel much safer telling a customer a roof is dried in with synthetic on it rather than asphalt felts. Synthetics are typically much safer to work off of as far as foot traction. Much easier to handle and install yielding lower labor cost to install. You must have a decent size roof to justify the $600 add on.

I am not saying that a roof can't be dried in the the asphalt felts. But if there is much trafficking that needs to occur over the newly laid felts there is a good chance that the felt will suffer some damage.

Now if I didn't have to worry about the having a thunderstorm pop up on me at 1 pm in the afternoon and I knew I could tear off and get shingles back on safely in the same day - there is no reason to use the synthetics.

Looking from a homeowners perspective and the way the roofer has offered his quote, there is no benefit for you to spend the $600. If the contractor is licensed and insured let him assume all the risk.
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:28 AM   #7
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Roof Underlayment


We do get afternoon T-storms around here. I was thinking more about better protection if a shingle should blow off.

Are the Landmark Pro shingles worth $2125 over the regular Landmarks? Hard to tell from the pics. I am getting Moire Black.

How about the 5-star warranty that keeps me covered for workmanship for 25 yrs and a full non-prorated warranty for 50 yrs against defects in the shingles for $1064?

The standard warranty they give is only on the material, not the workmanship. 10 year sure start on material defects only and does not include tear-off costs. Only covers the cost of material and labor to install new shingles. 40 years of prorated warranty after the first 10 years.

Also, the roofer has me interested in the Maze double dipped nails, he said they grip a lot better, $200 extra.

Thanks,
Al

Last edited by AlleyG; 08-30-2012 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 08-31-2012, 07:40 AM   #8
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If a shingle blows off, yes the synthetic underlay will protect your roof for a longer period of time than tar paper. So you won't have to get it fixed right away, even though you should.

Landmark Pros are worth more than regular Landmarks. Whether they are worth $2125 more depends on each region. That and without knowing how big your roof is (sq ft) it's a tough guess.

How long does the roofing companies "workmanship warranty" last?
That combined with the regular warranty is sufficient for most folks.

If anyone tried to sell me a box of roofing nails for $200 extra I would tell them to go pound sand. Any roofing nail that comes out of a pneumatic is going to grip pretty good. My opinion.
Those Maze nails are EXPENSIVE lol, $130 for 3600 nails, even Stanley nails are only $45 for 7200 nails.
The nails ours and most other suppliers have are of the cheaper kind. Stanley nails have a rough finish on the head so when the air guns hammer comes down it grips the nail and drives it straight. The cheap nails have a smooth head where the hammer can slip and drive the nail crooked.
1 misplaced (crooked, under/over driven) nail can void the entire roof warranty.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:03 AM   #9
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Roof Underlayment


The 3 estimates I have gotten so far are all hand nailing shingles.

Al
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:15 AM   #10
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Roof Underlayment


The Maze nails are about $50. more a box. BUT, they're the only ones suitable for roofing. Go with that guy. If he's using hte Maze to felt also, that would explain the difference. EG nails are for felt only!
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Old 08-31-2012, 12:24 PM   #11
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He must mark them up then, he said $35 a box for regular and $135 a box for Maze. 2 boxes would be an extra $200. Might be a moot point anyway. I was 1 e-mail away from signing the contract, when I never got the forms from him for liability insurance, etc, asked him twice.

The other guy that was high bid said he never had a problem with regular nails. But he uses Titanium underlayment. He also measured my roof at 42 squares, when it's only 34! Could be the reason for the high bid! How much do they allow for waste?

Al
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:32 PM   #12
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Roof Underlayment


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlleyG View Post
We do get afternoon T-storms around here. I was thinking more about better protection if a shingle should blow off.

Are the Landmark Pro shingles worth $2125 over the regular Landmarks? Hard to tell from the pics. I am getting Moire Black.

How about the 5-star warranty that keeps me covered for workmanship for 25 yrs and a full non-prorated warranty for 50 yrs against defects in the shingles for $1064?

The standard warranty they give is only on the material, not the workmanship. 10 year sure start on material defects only and does not include tear-off costs. Only covers the cost of material and labor to install new shingles. 40 years of prorated warranty after the first 10 years.

Also, the roofer has me interested in the Maze double dipped nails, he said they grip a lot better, $200 extra.

Thanks,
Al
That is one huge price difference between landmarks and landmark pros. Considering we charge an extra 30 a square for the landmark pros, your roof would need to be 70 square. Is your roof that big?

We also do numerous 5-star roof installations. That price varies greatly depending on the complexity of the house. A simple 20 square home may only cost $300 for the 5 star while another 20 square home with multiple intersecting roof plans and slopes could make it very costly.

The big thing you will have to consider is how long you plan on staying in the home. The 5 star warranty is great if you plan on staying a long time and never want to have to worry about roofing problems.
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:56 PM   #13
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Roof Underlayment


It is 34 squares - measured by me as my house plan is in Autocad. One guy measured 42 squares, and the other two didnt say how many squares. And I did add 12% for the 6:12 slope, which you cant see in a plan view.

I plan on staying there a long time. I got a quote for $1064 for the 5-star warranty.

My Dad keeps trying to get me to call Lowe's or Home Depot.

Thanks,
Al
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:01 PM   #14
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Roof Underlayment


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlleyG
It is 34 squares - measured by me as my house plan is in Autocad. One guy measured 42 squares, and the other two didnt say how many squares. And I did add 12% for the 6:12 slope, which you cant see in a plan view.

I plan on staying there a long time. I got a quote for $1064 for the 5-star warranty.

My Dad keeps trying to get me to call Lowe's or Home Depot.

Thanks,
Al
Good luck with HD or Lowes. I sold someone new siding, roof, soffit and fascia for what HD quoted the guy for his siding and we are an upper middle priced company.
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Old 08-31-2012, 04:49 PM   #15
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Roof Underlayment


If you a have concern about storms, look at roof deck seam tape. The felt will likely blow off with the shingles. Its cheap. (Assuming the rafters and plywood won't go anywhere)

I too think Maze nails are great. I just honestly can't say I ever seen a roof that had a problem where the regular zinc coated nails caused a problem. The real issue for you is finding a roofer that will place the nails on the nail line on the shingle. I would also use 6 nails per shingle.

There is no benefit to hand nailing over gun nailing. The issue is if the nails located and driven properly and properly sized. I have seen pull tests done with the gun nails.

I think the issue with the landmark pros is more of your personal preference. You said you have a 6:12 slope roof, does your house sit it a way that the roof will be visible enough for it to be worth it. I don't think the extended warranty is worth it. Like bcdemon said, the workmanship guarantee is important to find out. I would try to look for at least 5 years by the installer. As far as the shingles go, the max algae warranty you get is 15 years. After that the roof can start looking like a mess. Unless your really want the extras, there are probably better places to spend the money.

I know it seems like you are dead set on the black shingle, have you looked at the energy star approved Solaris shingles? You may actually get some benefit out of that extra expense.

I have an issue with the first roofer. He gives you a bid with base items on everything, then line items all these extras. As a buyer I would hear, "the paper sucks, this paper is better but it will cost you" - "the nails suck, these nails are better but it will cost you" - "the warranty sucks, this warranty is better but it will cost you." Do you have a bid from a roofer that looked at your house, and your neighborhood, and reviewed & explained the options and with your input developed a proposal as if he were putting a roof on his own house? If you don't throw the bids away and get 3 more bids. I doubt you will get this kind of attention from HD or Lowe's reps or installers.

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