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roof leak question

5K views 23 replies 6 participants last post by  the roofing god 
#1 ·
We bought our house in 2006 and I believe a new roof had been put on within the last 5-6 years. A few months ago we noticed some water on the mantle about 3 feet to the left of our fireplace during a heavy storm. There is a small gap between the all brick wall around the fireplace and where the ceiling buts up to it. We have continued to check in but have never noticed any additonal water. However, I was checking it out during the last heavy rain we had and notice that the ceiling around that area looked a little different then the rest. When I pressed on it, it seemed to give ever so slightly compared othe rest of the ceiling around it. I also accidently poke my finger through in one spot but it did not feel wet when I felt around in the hole or on the underside of the ceiling. It was finally nice enough to climb up on the roof today and visually I did not see anything that appeared wrong. All the shingles look to be in great shape. I did however notice what I woud describe as a soft spot about 1-2 feet away from the chimney on the same side that we had noticed the leak. There was a difinitive amount of give in the roof here compared to all of the surrounding areas and the rest of the roof. The area was maybe 12x12 or so. What do you think is going on and how would I go about fixing it if it does need fixing?
 
#6 ·
not sure what the chimney material is at the top. There is metal flashing under that rubber piece that you cannot see. What is wrong about it? Just likely have to replace the 1 piece of plywood and then put the shingles back over it?
Josh,

Something must have been very wrong with the metal flashing for them to completely cover it up in this manner.

Since I can not see through the Rubber EPDM, I have to rely on what you say about metal flashing behind/underneath it.

That Dry-Vit or Stucco textured surface, does not lend itself to a smooth compression seal. Did they use a foam backer rod behind the compression termination bar, or alternatively, did they apply a heavy bead of tri-polymer sealant "Behind" the rubber, which is held on with the termination bar?

A textured surface like that only needs a pin hole sized gap in the compression gasket seal to allow water to migrate into the structure.

I am also concerned about how close to the top side of the chimney that the shingles are installed. Did they count on EPDM rubber to resist leaks from nail holes?

Also, that corner detail looks quite baggy. There may be some voids in the turning around the corner with that membrane.

The existing flashings, if that is what someone wants to call them, need to be completely removed and then a proper step base flashing, (baby tins under the shingles), and a properly mounted sheet metal counter flashing needs to be installed, as well as the removal of the shingles so that the rotted and soft sheet of decking can be replaced.

Is this a masonry interior behind that textured exterior surface?

Is it wood framed instead?

What does the top cap or sill splash look like? Please post some more photos.

Ed
 
#7 ·
It is likely masonary below that textured surfaced as the whole house is brick and the wall along the inside and outside of the fireplace is brick. Not really sure how to go about answering your other questions unfortunately as I am not familliar with all of the terms you used. How major of a repair do you think this will be? Any idea what to expect in terms of costs if we have someone come out to fix it?
 
#10 · (Edited)
EPDM
The chemical acronym for what is commonly referred to as a ruuber roof membrane. Ethylene Propolene Dionomere (sp) Membrane


Did they use a foam backer rod behind the compression termination bar not sure on either of those
They probably did not. It is only a true architectural sheet metal contractor who has experience with SMACNA (Sheet Metal and Air Conditioning Contractors National Association, I think), guidelines. A foam backer rod is a flexible round tube of compressible foam material, which when installed behind the termination bar or surface mounted counter flashing, provides a tightly compressed seal, even though caulking is also to be applied. It alows for building movement through expansion and contraction, without distrupting the adhesion and weather-tight seal.

top cap or sill splash
The top of the chimney, usually made of concrete if it is a clay flue pipe penetrationg the top for exhaust. It should extend approximately 1 1/2" to 2" beyond the exterior sides of the walls of the chimney. It also should be tapered from the ceter flue pipe to the outward perimeters to shed water. It can get cracked and have open voids near the flue pipe allowing moisture entry.

thanks for the help.

what about costs of repair? How big of a deal is this? Just a minor type of repair? Need to be done soon?
That depends on exactly what needs to be done. From where I am, this could range from about $ 900.00 to nearly $ 2,000.00
I answered your questions above. Could you please post some additional photos of the areas I mentioned?

Ed
 
#11 ·
Thank your for your help. It has been lightly raining most of the day so I dont know if I can get on the roof when I get home or not. I have a few more pics I took yesterday that may show some of the areas you mentioned. I will try to post tonight. May take more pics tomorrow. Thank you again.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Don't be in a hurry. Be safe and do not go up there when it is wet. Hopefuly, I will still be around tomorrow and for quite some time. If you can get a good view, also take a photo of the interior where the water staining is occurring.

Also, optionally, the top of the chimney may have a sheet metal cap instead of a concrete crown. If so, it too shoud have been cross-breaked, with an X pattern, from corner to corner, to create a pitch from the center to the outside perimeters, with a 1 1/2" to 2" flange folding down on the sides.

Take the photos tomorrow or the next day.

Ed
 
#15 ·
I finally realized that among other things, that detail on the back of the chimney will actually run water 'up the roof' and under the shingles.
Look at that thing Ed. It's not even level, it reverses the flow. I agree with you on the cost. $1,200. to 2,200.
The whole thing needs re-doing and hopefully it won't become an issue that the chimney itself is to blame. That would be bad.
 
#17 ·
Do you think the only problem is the way the roof and flashing were installed? What are the chances there is a problem with the chimney itself as well? I ask because we are going tomorrow to purchase a new woodburning fireplace insert. Planning on having it installed with a full stainless steel liner and new chimney cap/top plate. We had a chimney sweep out a few months ago who said the chimney itself seemed fine. We were not aware of the leak at the time. If the roof needs to be repaired we would likel have it done before the insert/liner instal but they have a clearance sale on the inserts this weekend so we would save a lot of money by getting it now. Would hate to buy a new insert and then find out my chimney was bunk and in need of replacing? No time to get a roofer out before to inspect it. Anything I can look for myself? Thanks again for your help.
 
#18 ·
Cut that stucco type exterior back to the wooden structure and flash the frakin thing in aluminum or copper. This looks like a repair so it was probably done like this by someone who either didnt want to pay to do it right or by a roofer that doesn't know what he's doing.
 
#19 ·
I do not see any voids that stand out from the photos at the top terminations of the flashings. I would concentrate more on checking out the top portion of the chimney, similar to what Tinner mentioned, where the shingles are lifted up at the side edge of that one shingle.

Also, how far back does that membrane flashing go?

And remember what I said before, that EPDM rubber is not a water-tight seal when nails from the shingles penetrate it.

Without cracking or tearing that lifted shingle, can you look under there to see how far back it goes. Irregardless, that entire flashing job is done incorrectly and needs to be redone properly. That is most likely the source of your leak.

Ed
 
#20 ·
Update 4/2/08

Had someone out to look at the roof this afternoon. Said the chimney looks fine but that we may want to consider putting a layer of sealer on it. He says the problem is definately the flashing. States their plan would be to remove the rubber flashing and several feet of shingles around each side of the chimney. Cut out and remove any rotted plywood sheating as needed. Put down a ice/snow guard membrane over the plywood. Install metal step flashing with counter flashing and either reinstall existing shingles or matching ones. Cost of $800. What do you think? Sound like this is the correct way to do it and will fix it? Quote sounds reasonable I think?

On a side note what kind of sealer would you suggest for the chimney?

Thanks for all the help.
 
#21 ·
#22 ·
I would also recommend installing a saddle/cricket behind the chimney to divert water to either side as it`s over 30" in width(closer to 40,I would recomend a small valley be attached to the metal cricket,on each side ,and all joints be sealed,I would want it to be redone in copper so all seams and joints can be soldered,cost with a cricket /saddle would be around $1600.00 for that size chimney,and I would definitely want all new shingles used at the chimney perimeter
 
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