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Roof leak nightmare..... it won't stop

21K views 52 replies 10 participants last post by  petelyoung 
#1 · (Edited)
I really hope someone can help us here.

We have lived in this house 7 years and noticed a small leak in a closet at the back of our house over a year ago. The roof above that closet is part of a small addition that had a flat roof.

We had Roof Company #1 come out, who quoted us on replacing the shingles on the flat roof (well it's not completely flat, but too flat for shingles) with torch-down. He said it would solve the leak. It didn't.

Roof company #2 said the leak must be originating higher, on the second story dormer. We had them replace that part of the roof, as he said it would solve the leak. It didn't.

We finally saved up enough money for an entire new roof, and Roof company #3 did the replacement for us. We thought the problem was solved.... until the next big rain. We were told our gutters were old and not hanging properly. We hired Gutter company to replace them.

Are you with me? It is STILL @#(*$&@# LEAKING.

So my husband and I took out the paneling and insulation in the closet ceiling to get a good look. Yesterday he went on the roof with the hose, and I sat in the closet with a flashlight. Starting at the lowest point along that seem, he let the hose sit for 10-15 min. then moved it up a few inches. The closet was dry. He also did this around the boots and other places on the torch-down roof, and the closet remained dry.

So then he moved the hose up to the roof that slopes down above the closet, and started spraying there (purposely avoiding the seem where it meets the dormer). As the water started running down through the gutter, the leaking began in the closet almost instantly. (the blue arch in the photo is where he was spraying when this happened).

We immediately got Gutter company on the phone and the owner came out. It was raining today when he came, and we showed him what we did and why we think water is getting in somewhere around the gutter. He insisted that it wasn't possible, and kept pointing toward the seam where the sloped roof meets the side of the dormer. My husband kept telling him that no, he was not getting that area wet when we had the hose. This guy was a jerk and insisted that gutters don't cause leaks like this. He said we needed to call Roof Company to come out and start removing shingles to find the source. Roof is about 6 months old, Gutters are about 2 months old. The leak has been happening since before either were replaced. The closet is under the back addition (laundry room) right at the seam, by the windows.

I am attaching a photo (it's old - from 7 years ago when we moved here, but the only one I Have showing the layout on the back of the house.) We have since also replaced windows. Everyone is blaming "the other" company and I am ready to invite them all over to duke it out until someone figures this out and fixes it. Our house is going up for sale Wednesday, this MUST be fixed ASAP. And we are helpless and don't know who to call next. Roof Company is coming out on Monday to look again and eliminate the seems as the cause of the leak.

Any suggestions??? Anyone?? My husband and I are NOT handy but I am beyond frustrated. After hiring so many jerks to fix this for us, not one went on the roof with a hose like we had to do ourselves. We feel like we have isolated the area that is the source of the leak, but what do we do next??




Ok, just managed to snap another photo from above (stuck my head out dormer window). We stuck hose under gutter and along that whole seam where the torch-down roof meets rest of house, and nothing. That area is not the source of leak. My husband thinks it has something to do with the gutter right here. Maybe the way the metal things are attached at an angle and water is running through where the screws go in? Is that possible? Does anything look "off" about this gutter?

 
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#4 · (Edited)
Where exactly in that last picture did you find the leak with the hose?
Anywhere near the wall flashing?

On a side note, your gutters don't make sense. You are keeping the runoff off the deck with the gutter but allowing the downspout to pour in that area? It's going to wear that roof out fast right there. Makes more sense to run the downspout into the gutter. I'd also make a big 24ga 6" box gutter for that small area.
If you leave it the way it is at least you should have an additional sacrificial sheet torched over the existing roof right there to preserve the actual roof.

I would redo the gutter and ds
 
#5 ·
Thanks for your reply! I'll edit the photo to add more details:



We pointed the downspout out to gutter guy and it will be re-routed to meet that gutter instead of running onto the roof. However we are certain that isn't the source of the leak, as we ran water extensively all over the torch-down roof and could not get it to leak.
 
#6 ·
Didn't think that was the leak, just pointing out that it's not a good setup the way it is.

Likely suspect is the wall flashing on the upper roof next to your blue smudge. Look especially close at the corner. If that's not it, remove the gutter, inspect and flood test again without the gutter installed.
 
#8 ·
Well apparently the water WAS getting over to the edge of the siding when he did this, because we did it just now and that is definitely the source of the problem. It is also obvious from the huge amounts of old and scraped up caulking there that this was a problem before we bought this house 7 years ago. After it dries hubby will head back up there with caulk and hopefully that will take care of our problem.
 
#11 ·
Caulking isn't a fix? :/ uh oh

Should the roofer have redone this?

Here's a pic of it just now:




Like I said it was obviously caulked a LOT before...... it started leaking about 5 years after we moved here. Did I mention our house is going to be FOR SALE this week? So we need to fix this ASAP.
Thanks for your help.
 
#12 ·
That's a new roof? I'm going to have to assume your roofer was lazy and just butted the new shingles to the wall without interweaving them with the step flashing and caulked the joint thinking it would work. That is completely wrong.

If you can lift the shingles slightly right next to the wall and see if there are pieces of metal under them at least every other shingle. Should be easy to see. If no step flashing then that is your problem. If it was flashed properly with your new roof then it would have eliminated your problem. If not then he just covered up your problem without fixing it.
 
#13 ·
We had Roof Company #1 come out, who quoted us on replacing the shingles on the flat roof (well it's not completely flat, but too flat for shingles) with torch-down. He said it would solve the leak. It didn't.

Roof company #2 said the leak must be originating higher, on the second story dormer. We had them replace that part of the roof, as he said it would solve the leak. It didn't.

We finally saved up enough money for an entire new roof, and Roof company #3 did the replacement for us. We thought the problem was solved.... until the next big rain. We were told our gutters were old and not hanging properly. We hired Gutter company to replace them.
This stuff makes me sick.
 
#14 ·
Sure does.

If this is the case, whoever roofed that part of your house is 100% responsible for your present leak. A conscientious roofer would have taken the time to flash the wall into the new roof.

I'd still fix the gutter/ds issue too.
 
#15 ·
Wow... ok. Thanks for your help. I will have hubby go up there and check where the shingles meet the flashing. We are just so frustrated because we have paid so many people now to help us fix this, and still it is US on the roof all weekend trying to figure out this crap, when we know nothing about this stuff. So frustrating.

So the roof was leaking before AND after the new roof, but it seems obvious now that this was the problem all along. Wonder why any of these "professionals" didn't notice this, as it was obviously all messy looking and full of old caulk (likely from previous owner)... Ugh.

Thanks again for your help here. Roofer is coming Monday so I will update.
 
#20 ·
From the pics,it doesn't look like your in the snow belt,so there is
no chance of ice dams.
But,
What we always do here is roll any I&W that is used up the side of
an intersecting wall where that flashing needs to be addressed,
before we install the flashing.
Probably not a problem where you are,but just thought I'd add it
before your roofer gets there.

Did they strip the old shingles before the new was installed?
A lot of times,on a lay-over,an installer will mistakenly depend
on the old flashing to keep things dry.
 
#21 ·
Ok... just went up there with hubby and tried to look for this, but we're not sure what we should be seeing. The shingles are under the brown metal strip (is that the J-channel??), so we can't lift the edges to look under. Hubby said he can see another strip of metal if he looks between the shingles and that brown metal strip.

Here are 2 pics I took up there. The brown caulking is what we added earlier today, along the portion of the roof where there was all sorts of old cracked dried up caulk that was already there. It seems like the bottom 4 feet or so were heavily caulked before, the rest of the way up looks clean and clear. We did NOT run the hose all the way to the top, but we probably should to confirm that this area is the only problem. There are NO leaks on the other side of our dormer either, which looks identical. No signs of it being caulked over there before either.

This first picture is right where the caulked area begins. The brown is what my husband added, but you can see the thick clear caulk underneath. I believe that was from the previous owner, not our roofer, because it appeared very old (roof was just 6 mos ago) and also was not adhered to shingles.



And this is along where the problem is. Again, my husband added the brown and you can see all the lumpy clear caulk on the inside part of the brown metal strip too, right against the siding. He added some on top of what was there, but tried to smooth it out the best he could. Whoever did it before left it looking really awful and lumpy... It was piled in there pretty good. :/ That's probably not good.



So I guess my question now is - what exactly SHOULD this seam look like? If our roofer didn't do something properly, what is it we should ask him to do? And will we be expected to pay for more work, or should this have been included in our roof replacement? (He did remove the old shingles, there is just one layer there).
Also - the space between that brown strip and the siding... where is the water going that gets inbetween there??

thanks again for your help everyone, I really appreciate it.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Yes, it should have been included in your new roof, absolutely no question there.
All that old caulk indicates its been a problem for a long time and the previous owners tried to do exactly what you are doing and you see the result.

Did the roofer apply caulk there prior to you getting up there or is that all from after he was done? Honestly you shouldn't have messed with anything on the roof without first getting the roofer out there. It gives him an out from guaranteeing his work because someone else (you) modified it. That is standard practice and, if you think about it, logical.

Anyways, the proper detail is called "step flashing". Individual pieces of metal bent in an "L" shape generally 4" on the roof, 4" up the wall. They are interwoven in the courses of shingles to redirect any water back onto the roof and not behind your siding and down the wall.

Here is a recent topic that covers the same issue you are having. Basically whatever is discussed there also pertains to your issue without having to rehash it all here again.
http://www.diychatroom.com/f9/leaking-roof-99860/

Okay, that one doesn't have all the info I thought it did, but it is the same issue as you have.
Basically you need to have someone ensure that that wall was properly flashed with NEW step flashing when you had your new roof put on.
 
#23 ·
Ok thanks! I will go read that thread right now. So is the step flashing something we would see, or is it under the siding and shingles? All we can see is what's in the photos....

Was the roofer supposed to remove the siding to redo this flashing?

And you make a good point..we probably should have left it until he came :( Before you guys said anything we figured caulking was just what needed to be done.
 
#24 ·
"Did the roofer apply caulk there prior to you getting up there or is that all from after he was done?"

Roofer didn't apply any caulk there. He came out a few times when we first noticed the leak was still going on, and he kept pointing the blame to the torch-down roof on the addition below (which of course was done by Roofer #1). He applied tar and caulk along the seam there, but that never made a difference. He never seemed to think it could have been anything above, or anything to do with the work he did. My husband was on the roof with him a few times, and they never even looked at this area. Only today after Gutter Guy was telling us that it definitely was NOT his gutters causing the problem, did he point us towards this.
 
#27 ·
IMO, the siding should have been removed on the dormer, in order to insure a proper flashing job. Re-using old flashing is not a good idea, although I see it done, over and over. Roofers aren't siders and so it goes. That being said, the roofer should recommend that you hire a siding contractor to remove and re-install, but that cuts into scheduling and profit margins.

That's why I'm not a roofer.:laughing:
 
#29 ·
The hardest spot to flash here would be behind that corner post.
If the siding wasn't removed to flash this properly,there's no
way to tell what's behind it or the corner post.
It looks like the flat roof area was rolled up under the siding.
If the top of that rolled up section wasn't flashed near the
corner post,water can be dumping behind it when it runs off the
upper roof near the corner.
There's a lot going on in that spot and removing the siding will
be the only way to determine how to make the repair.
The leak could actually be the fault of the flat roofers who
didn't ensure that their product was properly sealed at that point.
 
#32 ·
There's a lot going on in that spot and removing the siding will
be the only way to determine how to make the repair.
The leak could actually be the fault of the flat roofers who
didn't ensure that their product was properly sealed at that point.
Thank you!! Ok so when Roofer comes tomorrow should I tell him he needs to remove the siding?? What if he says no? The flat roof was done over a year ago (Roofer #1)- and that guy was a complete jerk - stopped returning our calls, etc... he also almost set our attic on fire with his stupid torch. :(
 
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