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Old 10-25-2012, 06:40 AM   #31
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Roof estimate LOL


Just for 5hits and giggles, I can offer the same materials as Grumpy, with a top notch installation, for $6700 and still put well over $1000 in my pocket per day and be home by 3pm. IN MY REGION!
But I can buy those materials for around $100 p/sq. I know they pay a lot more in Florida, plus you have all those inspections.


JWilliams850, I don't know how many Roofing Company owners I have heard (online) call ME a low baller because my BOSS pays me $30 p/sq. Glad to hear I'm not the only one getting hosed, sorry
You would think if companies are charging $350 p/sq the guy that actually installs the roof (without leaks) would at least get around $50 p/sq. But then capitalism kicks in, and the company profits are more important than paying top dollar for quality installation. But boy oh boy, leak a roof and they are ALL OVER YOU!

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Old 10-25-2012, 09:14 AM   #32
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It shouldn't. There are all types of customers and contractors. I've won jobs where I was the most expensive and lost jobs where I was cheaper.
I agree. On jobs I have done (different field) I have had plenty of push back on price. It is normal and just business. If the price offered is too low, I'll pass. If they can find someone who can do the work at that price, good for them. I also do the same.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:54 AM   #33
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Are you a veteran? JIm
My one regret in my life is that I never enlisted in the Marines. My whole childhood that's what I wanted to be, sadly when the time came I chickened out. Looking back I really really really wish I had enlisted
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Sometimes the savings that comes from doing it yourself can be blown away with one mistake.

The information found in this post is not to be considered legal advice. All information should be considered relative, not specific. Never attempt any repairs you are not comfortable with. Always maintain safety! The author of this post takes no responsibility for any losses that occur. Use at your own risk.
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:27 AM   #34
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My one regret in my life is that I never enlisted in the Marines. My whole childhood that's what I wanted to be, sadly when the time came I chickened out. Looking back I really really really wish I had enlisted
I spent 4 years in the USMC, when I came home from a camping trip to Viet Nam I was F ing pissed, every body and everything just set me off. Not a good way to live life.

Several years in therapy and some Zoloft and now very little upsets me. I was hoping you were a vet so I could suggest you go to the VA. JIm
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:48 AM   #35
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No, I'm just a high strung individual. Notice the name. I'm also passionate about what I do and know how incredibly hard it is, and know how underpaid most people in this profession really are. And when I hear people talking about sharpening the pencil and talking someone down on price it is very frustrating because it takes away from my chosen profession and shows how little respect people have in today's society for people who choose to work with their hands. That's what sets me off.

Do you ask your doctor for a discount?
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Sometimes the savings that comes from doing it yourself can be blown away with one mistake.

The information found in this post is not to be considered legal advice. All information should be considered relative, not specific. Never attempt any repairs you are not comfortable with. Always maintain safety! The author of this post takes no responsibility for any losses that occur. Use at your own risk.

Last edited by Grumpy; 10-25-2012 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:23 PM   #36
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Do you ask your doctor for a discount?
Yes. If you have HMO insurance, your insurance company already has and gotten one. If you don't have insurance, then you request the non-insurance rate. Typically, it's 40% off the billed rate. Still more than most HMO's, but a significant discount non-the-less.

My son fell off my insurance due to age and needed an MRI. That discount brought the bill from $1000 to a little less than $600. The doctors visits were also cut.

It's just business. They could say no and I could go elsewhere. Neither have a gun to our heads to accept anything.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:04 PM   #37
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I am not dealing with independent roofer's they are large company's, I am sure there are independent contractors in the area, but I do not know how to find them. They are probably subbing for these company's and HD and Lowe's etc.

Gary the estimator is probably 1 of 3 or 4 estimators at that company.

Yes I will negotiate with Doctor's and hospitals. Those I go after unmercifully, I go right for the throat!

Tried it with my dentist, he in a very sophisticated way told me to pound salt I can respect that.

My bids are not apples to apples, the $6600 bid did not include the 400 sq ft of flat roof. But he is using Certainteed Landmark 30yr shingles which many here seem to like?
JIm
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:41 PM   #38
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Thank you for your response. But at $12K you are not getting the job, you will have to sharpen your pencil a bit.

Unlike most people I am a bit annal about some things. The first thing I notice is when a company representative shows up and parks in the middle of my driveway, blocking it, Strike one!

just recieved 2nd bid, estimator told me it would be emailed. At the job he told me it would be $7K, the emailed written estimate is $8,300! Office and estimator must not talk to each other or office does not want job?

The last roof I had installed 3 years ago the contractors were very close in price. I picked the one that presented a highly detailed bid.

last time what impressed me most in the whole experience was the crew! They showed up and instead of parking in the middle of the drive, they asked where they should park. There was no screaming and yelling, no Hey where the $%&^'s my hammer you AH? No Boom Box's blaring out noise. A group of hardworking respectful men. Real pleasant experience.

JIm
Contractors take note, I am pretty much the same way! Professionalism and respect go a long way. A detailed estimate lets me do some research and see the methods you will be using. And stupid little things like not parking in my driveway as well make a difference. Have a price far above the average price also knocks you out of the race for me. It could really be worth the extra cost, but I usually don't have the money to blow on it.
Also helpful are guys like OP, who are friendly and exude confidence and knowhow. Its very comforting when faced with a guy who just seems to know his stuff like its nothing.
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:42 PM   #39
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Just for 5hits and giggles, I can offer the same materials as Grumpy, with a top notch installation, for $6700 and still put well over $1000 in my pocket per day and be home by 3pm. IN MY REGION!
But I can buy those materials for around $100 p/sq. I know they pay a lot more in Florida, plus you have all those inspections.

JWilliams850, I don't know how many Roofing Company owners I have heard (online) call ME a low baller because my BOSS pays me $30 p/sq. Glad to hear I'm not the only one getting hosed, sorry
You would think if companies are charging $350 p/sq the guy that actually installs the roof (without leaks) would at least get around $50 p/sq. But then capitalism kicks in, and the company profits are more important than paying top dollar for quality installation. But boy oh boy, leak a roof and they are ALL OVER YOU!
Out of curiosity, how many days would it take you to complete 26 square on your own?

I would be looking at around 4K for materials and the dumpster. That leaves $2600. If this is a simple straight forward one layer, I figure it would take minimum of 32 man hours (4 guys an 8 hour day).

Those 4 guys, after burdens and everything else cost me $107 a hour so there is $856 dollars. Now we have left $1744. Since I sold the job, I get a commission on it (I pay myself personally 10% of the gross sale) so there is another $660.

Now we are already down to $1084 and I haven't even started with overhead, company profit, owner profit, the warranty fund, etc.

After all is said and done, if there are any problems, we won't even have enough money to go back to complete the repairs.

The reason why so many small roofing companies fail is because the owners (while they may be the best roofers) are terrible businessmen. If you sell the job, you get a commission. If you work on the job, you get paid hourly, how many guys don't do this?

Occasionally after I see another companies quote I just think to myself man, how long will these guys be around? Personally, I haven't been in business very long - we are going into our fourth year. I already don't have enough fingers or toes (and yes I have them all) to count the number of companies in my line of work that have already come and gone.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:27 PM   #40
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I go roof a 50 square 2 layer fire station today and look what happens,,,,What a great read.This has to be one of the best post,replies I have read.All over the place and totally off topic but some very cool stuff.

I am very proud to say that I was enlisted.I was a Sgt and my M.O.S was 11B10 Army Infantry.,Ground pounder,,bullet stopper etc..,Airborne and Air Assault.Veteran of Operation Desert Storm.

Grumpy I think you would have made a fine Drill Sgt. You have that way of getting under peoples skin but still able to prove a point.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:36 PM   #41
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I am a experienced bullet stopper! Viet Nam was a beatch but watching you guys in the Desert, made VN seem like a cake walk. If you or any of your friends have any issues go to hadit.com there motto is no one left behind, not on a jungle trail, not on a desert trail, not on a paper trail! JIm
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:35 PM   #42
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I am a experienced bullet stopper! Viet Nam was a beatch but watching you guys in the Desert, made VN seem like a cake walk. If you or any of your friends have any issues go to hadit.com there motto is no one left behind, not on a jungle trail, not on a desert trail, not on a paper trail! JIm
You have my respect being a Vietnam Vet.I only wish the Vietnam brothers were shown the same respect and patriotism the vets are shown today.I didn't see a whole lot.You fought a very devoted adversary.Like I said much respect to you.Thank you for your participation and contribution for my freedom.But as its already been said., "Freedom Isn't Free"
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Old 10-26-2012, 07:52 AM   #43
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Out of curiosity, how many days would it take you to complete 26 square on your own?
26 sq, 1 layer, 6/12 with a center dormer on the front for entertainment purposes. With no hiccups.

Under 25 hours, by myself.

I roof by the square, not the hour. From my employer I would make almost $1100 @ $42 p/sq. ($12 tear off + $30 install)
$662 @ $26.50 per hour. But then again, at the hourly rate it may take a while longer.

But everything goes by region, like I said I buy Landmarks for under $60 sq. I have heard of guys in the US paying over $100 sq for them.
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:17 AM   #44
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$662 doesn't include anything for workman's compensation, for general liability, for federal unemployment, for state unemployment, for FICA all of which in my area adds up to 75% burdens. It doesn't include anything for tool over head, vehicular over head, office overhead, sales rep commission, paid vacations, paid holidays, paid sick days, 401k, health insurance, etc...

Let's be serious here. There is such a thing as working for wages and running a business. If you're working for wages, even if you're selling and installing your own jobs, you're just killing the whole industry and would probably actually be better off as an employee.

LIke I said I expect regional differences, but if APPLES to APPLES there won't be 40% differences. BCDemon it would be collusion for me to suggest you raise your prices on your side jobs, but if not less than 4 reputable contractors here stated the price would be $10k+ and you come in at less than $7k, SOMETHING is wrong. I'm just asking you before you price your next side job to consider all the variables involved to run a legitimate roofing company.

No doubt from reading many of your posts you have the skill set and knowledge to specify and install a proper roofing system, but maybe just rethink your pricing and make sure you are not shooting yourself in the foot on your side jobs. And if you are "cheating" on your side jobs like most guys do on their side jobs, then please by all means just stop it now.

Sorry, I'm not meaning to pick on you directly, just trying to make the point that anyone who tries to be in business and pricing jobs had better really know their numbers.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:39 AM   #45
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I am being looked down on for shopping price and negotiating. Keep in mind I am not setting the starting point of the negotiations the contractors are! JIm

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