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-   -   Reroofing over Ten year old 3 tabbers (http://www.diychatroom.com/f9/reroofing-over-ten-year-old-3-tabbers-2229/)

gillaroo 04-09-2006 12:15 AM

Reroofing over Ten year old 3 tabbers
 
Our Ryan built 1500 sq ft colonial has shed a bunch of it's cheap 3 tab shingles almost every year since we moved in Christmas week 1995. The roof had been put on in November and I guess those shingles never had a chance of sticking down that first Winter. The contractor repaired the roof the first year but we were on our own after that. The house faces the prevailing Westerly wind which gets into the 50 or 60 mph range on occasion along Lake Ontario's South shore. Every year we would shell out a hundred or two dollars to have the roof repaired. The guy that does my repairs suggested a complete reroof over the existing shingles using Timberline 30 Architectural shingles. He estimated 19.5 square, a bundle of starters, a bundle of caps, 1 roll of 90 lb, a box of 1 1/2" nails and 25 pcs white frs metal for $2950.
I was wondering if that is a reasonable estimate for the job and whether it would be wise to put a heavier shingle (say a Timberline 40) on the windward side of the house (gabled) where all the damage is occurring?
All opinions welcome.

Mike Swearingen 04-09-2006 12:09 PM

I'm not a pro roofer, just a DIYer, but I personally wouldn't do a layover in such a high wind area. Besides not being nearly as sound as a tear-off roof job, it may totally void the warranty on the new overlaid shingles.
I also live in a very high wind area (on Albemarle Sound in northeastern NC). I have a 28' high A-Frame (almost all roof). I re-roofed (tear-off) in 1991 with a 40-year warranty double-bonded fiberglass Celotex "Presidential Shake" architectural shingle. These are 40" shingles (not 3-tab) are installed on 3" racks, and require 5 nails per shingle in the field and 8 nails per shingle on the ends.
In addition to the high quality shingles (isn't it amazing how you usually get what you pay for), I had ALL edges (roof and dormers) tarred down with black plastic roofing cement (6-12") to prevent them from rolling up from the edges in major storms.
We have been through a number of hurricanes, a 100+mph waterspout, numerous nor'easter storms, etc. and have never lost a shingle.
Mike

747 04-09-2006 11:48 PM

Mike is right many high quality architectural shingles do come with a wind rating and that applies to the warranty.

gillaroo 04-10-2006 02:30 AM

Thanks Mike
 
Appreciate your opinion. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that I would be constantly concerned about the integrity of the roof while the wind is raging outside with an overlay, regardless of the type of shingle. Your points on warrantees can't be argued with. I already know what it is like trying to get insurance companies and contractors to agree on the causes of wind damage.
How much would you estimate a proper 19.5 sq two level single dormer installation would cost, roughly? Say, using Timberline 40's?

Mike Swearingen 04-10-2006 07:32 AM

gilleroo,
Sorry, it's a bit difficult to guess what a particular job will cost in another geographical area. Far too many variables, including local labor rates, old roofing removal and disposal fees, etc.
You need to get at least three quotes from roofing pros for the same job, using the same shingle. Expect to pay extra for such things as having the edges tarred down if you go there, and I highly recommend it.
I call it "Godzilla" roofing. Extras matter. In a high wind area, it's pay me now or pay me later, as you know. I always had roofing damage in the 14 years between building my home in 1977 and re-roofing in 1991. Now I don't.
Good Luck!
Mike

747 04-10-2006 03:19 PM

Warranty on gaf are timberline select 40 80mph limited wind warranty. Timberline 30 70 mph limited wind warranty and Timberline ultra 110mph limited wind warranty.

747 04-10-2006 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gillaroo
Appreciate your opinion. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that I would be constantly concerned about the integrity of the roof while the wind is raging outside with an overlay, regardless of the type of shingle. Your points on warrantees can't be argued with. I already know what it is like trying to get insurance companies and contractors to agree on the causes of wind damage.
How much would you estimate a proper 19.5 sq two level single dormer installation would cost, roughly? Say, using Timberline 40's?

i CAN'T picture your house in my head. There are a lot of variables which go into a roofing job for a estimate. Landscapping,valleys, heights of house. Personally if it was my house i would expect to have at least 4,000 in my checking account before getting a bid for gaf timberline 40. But i'm not a roofing contractor and somebody like aaron b here at the board who is wouldn't just throw a bid out there because of all the variables not to mention location different areas get different prices. Also concering the shingles blowing off of your roof could be inproper nailing meaning the nailguns were shooting the nails to deep. Or maybe the plywood is in poor shape so there not gripping.

MJW 04-10-2006 06:40 PM

Improper nailing to me is nailing too high. Some guys still think the nail should go above the tar on the shingle. Chances are they are coming off because of cheap shingles or improper installation.

gillaroo 04-10-2006 10:44 PM

747/mjw
 
Thanks for the info guys. Very helpful.
Re estimate, I suppose the same goes for tearing off and disposal of a 19.5 sq roof. That would depend a lot on the area and the going rates in a particular region. I've been quoted around $1000 for the tearoff, so it's looking a lot like $4000 like you say 747. Now if I can only get my Insurance Co to kick in a little over half of that I'll be listening to the beat of the hammer pretty soon.

gillaroo 04-11-2006 09:31 PM

Pic of my roof
 
1 Attachment(s)
Not hard to figure out how this roof gets damaged.

MJW 04-12-2006 08:13 AM

Looks like a nice home. It should of had multi-layer shingles to begin with. Cheap a$$ builders. Our small roofing company has changed most builders in the area to using Landmark shingles. We use them on our houses and people notice.
Why is there no over hangs on your roof?

gillaroo 04-12-2006 05:34 PM

No overhangs, MJW?
 
Probably because it's cheaper that way would be my guess but
I'm clueless about construction. That's why I'm trying to pick your brains. Seems like all the houses in my neighborhood are the same way, even some of the more expensive stuff.
Our 'hood is tract. One of those developments where you have to wait 30 years
for everything to grow so it looks almost normal. Don't get me wrong. It's kinda nice to move into a new house that needs nothing (except landscaping) and you don't have to worry about stuff that doesn't work. Landscaping is another story since I'm not into interfering with Nature or competitive gardening. And I hate lawnmowers. You learn a lot the hard way, of course. If I were buying a new house today, I'd be a royal pain in the butt. A Ryan house is a great teacher. Sounds like a good line for an anti- Ryan ad, doesn't it?

AaronB 04-23-2006 11:28 AM

Dont blame the shingles, unless the tar strips were bad. Most likely faulty installation, and most homeowners insurances will not cover faulty installation. On the other hand, most insurnace adjusters do not know what sonstitutes a good or bad roof installation.

There are overhangs, but as far as cheap construction goes...if that house were built "like they used to", you would probably have paid double for it. Nowadays it is "as much as you can get for as little as possible", and most do not like the quality that is afforded in this scenario. Sad, but true.

gillaroo 04-30-2006 11:23 AM

Went with the overlay for $2950
 
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I know you experts are going to call me crazy for taking the cheap shortcut but here's my reasoning. Your criticism is welcomed.
I think the reason most overlays are not reccommended is because generally speaking it involves shingling over twenty year old dry brittle or cracked shingles that have seen their best days. Such a substrate will not handle the heat very well, especially on an older building when poor roof ventilation can result in premature heat related failure of the overlay. In this case the house and existing roof is only ten years old, is well ventilated, and the shingles are in good condition. Many of the shingles are only a year or two old since several repairs have been done since the original installation. To better deal with the wind conditions the installer put 5 nails in each shingle on the windward side of the house. We selected Timberline 30 "Williamsburg Slate Blend" which we think looks cool.
Finally, part of the reason we went with the overlay had to do with an imminent investment in the Guinness brewery which we expect to make during our upcoming fishing trip to Ireland :)

Mike Swearingen 04-30-2006 07:19 PM

Ireland fishing trip & Guinness investment v. tear-off? No question. You made THE right decision. LOL


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