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Old 06-25-2012, 05:52 PM   #1
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Replacing shingles with metal standing seam


A short time ago, I posted some questions and got a little good feedback on the original questions and some good feedback on ancillary issues. I'd like some more feedback about more direct issues. Here are the original questions in a simplified form.

I now have shingle roofs and flat roofs. I am planning on removing the shingles and having standing-seam metal installed. The flat roofs will have framing added and the same metal roofing installed.

I have some specific questions. Are there different options for treating the edges of the roof where the roof meets the walls?

What are the choices for underlayment? Should I care? What is the underlayment for, anyway?

This roof will be difficult to get onto safely compared to shingles and the flat roof. Is there any practical way to install attachment points for a safety harness?

I understand that the metal is lighter than the shingles that will be removed. The dead load will be less. Do I have to be concerned about the corresponding increase in the live load? This is Gulf of Mexico hurricane zone (New Orleans).

I wonder if hurricane ties should be added at this point if it is practical.

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Old 06-26-2012, 07:38 AM   #2
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Replacing shingles with metal standing seam


Use synthetic underlayment. It doubles as a proper slip layer for the metal and is not much more expensive than felt.

Don't bother with Deck Armor or any of the other breathable underlayments. It is not proper for an underlayment to be breathable in this case.

Not sure what you are asking about the roof to wall intersections. If you are doing a permanent roof, be prepared to remove and possible replace some siding to get the roof up the sidewall.

Along the ridge beam is ideal and you can hide the attachment point behind the ridge cap detail and leave a couple of permanent attachment points.

Not sure about the loading questions but you might want to ask an engineer. No matter what, the metal roof is going to be much more likely to stay attached and if installed with screws, keep the roof down as well.

I would also put on the hurricane ties regardless of the roof you select.

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Old 06-26-2012, 11:35 AM   #3
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Replacing shingles with metal standing seam


Thanks, very much, Windows on Wash. If you could indulge me, there seem to be three materials for synthetic cladding, polypropylene, polyester, or fiberglass. Do you know if these are woven fabric or a film? Are there advantages of woven over film?

I am concerned about the permeability of the underlayment. Iíve been advised to use low density foam so I should be able to dry to the inside, but with the attic cooler, and reduced air flow under the wood, it will certainly be slower. I suppose that LSU and Florida resources might be a good place to find discussion. Vapor barrier to the outside certainly fits with what is advised for walls around here.

Getting back to the outside wall to roof transitions. I have never had the opportunity to be on a ladder to have a close look at how that is done. By contrast, I know well what the edge of a typical shingle roof looks like. My question is, are there different ways of handling that transition, or is one method used all the time?

Nice thought to hide attachment points behind the ridges. Would permanent anchors be attached to the roof support structure and make use of some sort of flashing or to the roofing panels themselves like the clamps that might be used to attach photovoltaics? I know nothing about safety harness use, but that should be pretty easy to learn.

Maybe I am too worried about the structural stuff. The building codes should cover that and details like the attachment of the roofing material to the deck.
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:23 AM   #4
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Replacing shingles with metal standing seam


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Thanks, very much, Windows on Wash. If you could indulge me, there seem to be three materials for synthetic cladding, polypropylene, polyester, or fiberglass. Do you know if these are woven fabric or a film? Are there advantages of woven over film?

Woven has better shear strength in most cases and all the poly underlayements I have used are woven.

I am concerned about the permeability of the underlayment. Iíve been advised to use low density foam so I should be able to dry to the inside, but with the attic cooler, and reduced air flow under the wood, it will certainly be slower. I suppose that LSU and Florida resources might be a good place to find discussion. Vapor barrier to the outside certainly fits with what is advised for walls around here.

The permeability of the underlayment should be zero. You don't want any solar vapor drive pushing water into the plywood and open cell foam can dry to inside. Being in the humid South, you vapor control layer should be out the warm wall (i.e. outside) vs. inside. Roof decks don't need to breath.


Getting back to the outside wall to roof transitions. I have never had the opportunity to be on a ladder to have a close look at how that is done. By contrast, I know well what the edge of a typical shingle roof looks like. My question is, are there different ways of handling that transition, or is one method used all the time?

Without seeing the roof, it is tough to tell but if you installer is skilled, he will use the right transitions and details.

Nice thought to hide attachment points behind the ridges. Would permanent anchors be attached to the roof support structure and make use of some sort of flashing or to the roofing panels themselves like the clamps that might be used to attach photovoltaics? I know nothing about safety harness use, but that should be pretty easy to learn.

You can hide the attachment point under the ridge cap in some cases or they have permanent ones that get a boot style flashing.

Maybe I am too worried about the structural stuff. The building codes should cover that and details like the attachment of the roofing material to the deck.

Not necessarily. Use screws and be done with it. Better holding power and much preferred at the end of the day.
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:08 PM   #5
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Replacing shingles with metal standing seam


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You don't want any solar vapor drive pushing water into the plywood
That makes the reason very clear, thanks. The vapor pressure between the metal and the underlayment would be very high when the sun hits the metal in the morning.

Thanks for the other answers as well. It is all much clearer now.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:17 PM   #6
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Replacing shingles with metal standing seam


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Old 06-28-2012, 11:39 AM   #7
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Replacing shingles with metal standing seam


As for the safety concerns, the standing seams make excellent grip points. They make a ton of things that clamp to them. One example is a snow guard to prevent snow sliding off in the winter. Some of them are solid bars that span along the ribs and are rigid enough to accommodate someone standing on them. They make for a great grab bar and platform for getting on and off the roof.

There are varying edge options. They range in price and installation difficulty. It's all a matter of your budget and the roofing system manufacturer's available products.

I agree with all of WOW's info...
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Old 06-28-2012, 11:40 AM   #8
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Replacing shingles with metal standing seam


p.s. here's just one example of a plethora of clamp styles:

http://snow.tra-mage.com/assets/imag...p-On/C-2-2.png
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:39 PM   #9
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Replacing shingles with metal standing seam


Excellent, thanks very much!

One question about clamping on to the seams. With the finishes on the "cool roofs" do I have to be concerned about removing the surface layer. How about on any old metal roof panel? Does one have to worry about damaging the outer finish?

Last edited by ionized; 06-28-2012 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:11 AM   #10
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Replacing shingles with metal standing seam


Most of the clamps have taken that into account but realize if you pull on that sucker, its going to torque the metal and stress the finish.

I would also prefer the anchor to be bolted into the truss/rafter as compared to a seam but I weigh 265 so that is for me whereas some of my installers at a whopping 145 soaking wet need not worry.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:05 AM   #11
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Replacing shingles with metal standing seam


Thanks, the most robust attachment that is practical will be the best way to go. I will talk with the roofer. In order to get to the attachments near the peaks and back down to the ladder again, I plan on using rope that I toss over the peak and attach to framing under the raised house. I won't be as good as something at the peak, but better than nothing as a bridge.

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