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Old 04-02-2010, 02:04 AM   #1
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Reattach gutters--caulk leak barrier?


Sorry...This is long. And it's not really DIY, as I can't do this part of the job myself, but I trust you folks here.

Our new roof/gutters were installed in October. This winter we had a large amount of snow and ice in our area and the ice really built up, causing icicles all the way across the house, front and back, despite the r-49 insulated attic being well-ventilated with soffit/ridge vents to the point of being breezy inside... At least no ice dams leaked into the house!

BUT the gutter clip nails BROKE OFF in the roof edge; the gutters are no longer attached along the middle of the house and are sagging.

The GAF-recommended Master Elite roofer has offered to repair the gutters for free (It's a total GAF system and has their warranty, which I'd like to preserve), but his solution is to caulk the holes in the self-adhesive GAF WeatherWatch leak barrier.

When he first put on our gutters, he had promised to mount them with a little more slope than he did, but when asked to move them to the originally agreed position, he said he couldn't because it would leave holes in the weather barrier. Now he says that it's not a problem to just caulk holes in that same weather barrier! I don't know what to believe.

The only reason we re-roofed was that we had mold on the plywood in the attic. It has been removed, re-roofed and re-insulated and looks/works great; we don't want the same mold problem to reoccur--ever--which is why we bought "50 year" shingles and had the weather barrier placed up 6 feet from the roof edge. Re-insulating was a bear, as well.

Our old gutters were on the house for 16 years, through many similarly heavy ice storms, and never broke off or malfunctioned.

I'd rather fix this problem right than fix it for free. What should I do? Have the gutters repositioned and the first nail holes filled with caulk, or replace the weather barrier underneath the shingles so that it can wrap behind the gutters when reattached? I don't even know if that can be done without taking off all the new shingles on the whole roof!

Thanks in advance for your help!

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Old 04-02-2010, 04:49 PM   #2
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Reattach gutters--caulk leak barrier?


The gutters are not part of the GAF system. It sounds like the contractor is not to sure what he is talking about. The weatherwatch is designed to seal around any penetrations. Perhaps I am confused as to the actual problem. Do you have any pictures?

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Old 04-02-2010, 06:23 PM   #3
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Reattach gutters--caulk leak barrier?


I’m not sure about sealing issues but put the gutters back up with spikes, they hold. I have never liked the new clips they use. I complained to my gutter guy the first time I seen him use them. Sure there fast and easy but the screws are to small of gauge in my opinion and sure enough the first big storm (80 mph) to hit on one of “my” ocean front jobs one of “his” runs of gutter ripped off. Now you just confirmed it to me again.

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Old 04-03-2010, 12:47 AM   #4
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I would use 2" screws anchored into the rafter tails to keep the gutters up.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:26 PM   #5
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Reattach gutters--caulk leak barrier?


If at all possible use a roof rake to keep your edges clear of icicles and ice in the gutters in the future. I've been doing that for years. The ice will take the gutters down. Still with all the insulation and ventilation you describe I am surprised they formed that severely. Those rafter tail spikes let a lot of water into my rafter tails resulting in rot and they subsequently failed as a result. The local guttermen don't like them either.
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:26 PM   #6
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Reattach gutters--caulk leak barrier?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBamm5144 View Post
The gutters are not part of the GAF system. It sounds like the contractor is not to sure what he is talking about. The weatherwatch is designed to seal around any penetrations. Perhaps I am confused as to the actual problem. Do you have any pictures?
Sounds to me like the contractor is simply honoring his warranty. Does not sound like he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Although the gutters broke off due to an act of god, I think the contractor is doing an a class job fixing them for free.
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:38 PM   #7
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You cannot stop ice damming. Ice will form on the edge of the roof, no matter how much insulation you have.

Fiberglass insulation cannot achieve R 49. It just isnt possible. R factors are theoretical numbers based on a one inch model in a laboratory setting. It does not factor in air flow. This is why polyurethane foam is the best insulator you can buy at this time.

At r 6.5 per inch, it would make "sense" that 7 inches would achieve R-45.5, but this is not the case. Because the foam is a closed cell product with the insulating air encompassed within the cells, wind flow has no negative effects on it. Anything over 4" of closed cell is a waste of money because beyond 4" the law of diminishing returns is in full force.

The first inch of closed cell foam stops 85% of thermal loss. The second inch stops 85% of the remaining original 15%, the third 85% of the remaining, etc. After the fourth inch, the thermal loss is less than one percent of the original thermal profile.

Now this shows that 4" of closed cell spray foam would only yield R-26, but more foam will not stop anymore heat loss.

With fiberglass insulation, you achieve diminishing returns at approximately 10", if I remember correctly, and this is not a true R-30 because of wind wash.

So, after all of this, you will still get ice dams, even if your attic was full to the brim with insulation.

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