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Old 12-16-2013, 09:24 PM   #1
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Proper installation of roof


Hey guys!
We had a contractor install a new roof and it cost 6500$ for 1350 ft house (10x10deck torch down deck roof as well). Contractor took down the part of gutters since, according to him, they needed replacement. Before they even started the project, I asked the contractor for a quote on gutters, and I was told they will send somebody over. I thought I will be paying (the rest 90% of the cost) once the entire project is complete, including the gutters, however I was told the gutters were not in the contract, and I need to pay now since the project is complete, and "it is up to me to go with their gutter-contractor or to pick another one". They also advised me it will be no sooner than 3 weeks before the gutter-contractor can install the gutters.

I have 2 questions:

1. I am worried that in this rainy season in San Diego, my property is not protected without gutters, and I feel the contractor should not have touched the old gutters that were in place, if they can't deliver the installation immediately (to protect my property from water damages). I feel that I should pay once either new gutters are installed, or my old gutters are in place until I get new gutters installed. Please, advise on this. I may be mistaken and maybe this is how it is done.

2. I didn't like how they communicated with us during the installation (they had a "take it or leave it approach", and the estimator (owner of the company) was never available to talk to (everything had to be done through his assistant since "he's a very busy man".
The crew of hispanic guys that worked on the roof were very courteous, considerate and respectful, however I am not sure I am qualified to make a judgement if the roof is installed properly. How can I find that out? Should I call a city inspector to make sure they pulled a permit and installed everything properly?

Thank you in advance!

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Old 12-17-2013, 07:16 AM   #2
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Proper installation of roof


I would not pay the contract in full until the gutters are installed. Do you have a finished basement? If not I wouldn't worry too much about 3 weeks without gutters.

You can hire a roof inspector, or a home inspector if you are worried about the quality of install, but at this point it's probably too late. You could also read up on the install instructions if you are confident you would understand them.

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Old 12-17-2013, 07:50 AM   #3
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Proper installation of roof


Not sure how anyone on any web site is going to be of much help.
No one here saw your gutters before they came down to see what condition they were in.
Highly unlikely there's going to be any harm done without them for a few weeks. Millions of home's have never even had gutters.
If he did not charge you for the gutters, and if he did not included in the contract, then why should he be on the hook to pay for them?
Many times I've seen gutters that just were not worth saving, EG: home store plastic gutters, most of the old style gutter nails pulling out, rusted it, full of roofing tar where someone tried to stop then from leaking ECT.
If there was a permit it was really up to you to make sure they got one, it should have been posted on the property, if there was one needed no work should have begun until it was posted. Some areas do not even need a permit for roofing.
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:50 AM   #4
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Proper installation of roof


What does your contract say?
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:59 AM   #5
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Proper installation of roof


First i can tell by the 6500 dollar price it didn't include gutters. Your roof is 14 square. 6500 is on the money for this roof. Your probably looking at 750-1000 for gutters.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:46 AM   #6
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Most roofers want to sell you a new set of gutters when they do your roof. They know there's a chance they'll damage them while they're working, so they want to write it into the estimate rather than have to tip toe around them or risk damaging them and having to replace them for free later.

You're in a rough spot. If it is the rainy season I'm betting if you ask around and get estimates you will find all the gutter companies are backed up and will take awhile to get to you. That's the kind of weather where everybody suddenly notices they need gutter work at the same time. If those gutters were over any areas that are vulnerable to water intrusion, I'd still definitely give it a shot and see who can get to it sooner. I'm having some trouble understanding the roofer's logic. If he subbed out the gutters as part of the roofing job, I would imagine it should fall into the category of stuff that doesn't need to be paid for until the job is fixed. Seems like he's trying to have his cake and eat it to. He took that work and subbed it out so he could get a cut, but now he's demanding to be paid when that part isn't done which he probably wouldn't do with the rest of the roof. Seems fishy to me but it's all about how he wrote the contract up.

I had a company rip down a stretch of gutter on my house then realize they couldn't finish the job that day. Of course this was a Friday, so I went the weekend without it which was OK because there was no rain. They had the Monday booked solid so rather than squeezing me in they put me off til Tuesday. Tried to tell the guy I was a little worried about leaving that side unprotected in all the rain that was expected. The owner of the company downplayed it and said it wasn't a big deal, a few days without gutters wouldn't hurt anything. Early that Tuesday morning, we had a tremendous downpour that overwhelmed my walk-in basement door and put water into my basement. That basement door was directly underneath the section of missing gutter, so it wasn't rain water that did it. It was rain water and gallons of high velocity roof water combined that forced their way inside. Probably wouldn't have happened if the gutter had been there. It wasn't a huge amount of water that got all the way in, but some. Only time we have ever had water in that basement in months of downpours. Luckily for the gutter company I was smart enough to stack anything valuable well away from the low part of the basement so the stream of water just ran downhill and right into the sump pump without hurting any of our stuff.

Erosion damage takes time and I wouldn't worry about that. But if there are any areas vulnerable to water intrusion on that side of the house, a good downpour without the gutters installed will show you what they are.

Last edited by eharri3; 12-17-2013 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:30 PM   #7
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Proper installation of roof


Purely speculation because we can't see the contract nor were present for any conversations about the gutters. But...

Sounds like gutters were not part of the contract and the roofer gave you a referral to gutter guy. We do this also, it's not uncommon in s. Cal.

If he's done he should be paid. Sounds like you need to make a deal with the gutter guy ...a separate contract.

The roofer has a contract and shouldn't have to wait until you make a deal with another company for gutters to get paid.
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Old 12-18-2013, 03:36 PM   #8
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Re reading your post, I have to agree with the above poster. My first thought was the roofer wanted you to pay him up front for the gutters and have the subcontractor do them later. If he simply referred you to his gutter guy, and is now asking to be paid for the roof, this is different from subcontracting the work out. You're now looking at two different transactions, which means the gutters are for you to handle separately through his guy or some other company.
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Old 12-18-2013, 05:30 PM   #9
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Thanks guys
I paid them today, however I do want to mention the company led us on, and I will not recommend them to my friends.

The owner is a really good sales man that was unavailable to answer any questions once we signed the contract. Everything had to be done through his pushy assistant, because quote "the owner is too busy to answer questions". So I had to ask a question, communicate it with the assistant, and wait until she gets back to me (the courteous hispanic crew couldn't answer any of my questions, they just deferred me to the assistant).

However, this very busy owner promptly stopped by our house (without making an appointment with us) hoping to "run into us", according to the note he left, to collect the final payment the very next day after roof installation was complete.

Before signing the contract, I was advised they will send an estimator to give me a quote WHILE the crew was working on the roof, according to the email O have from them, so I was under a strong impression this will be done at the same time as roof installation. However, they were done with the project on 12/16, and I had no estimator. When I followed up on 12/16, I was told by the pushy assistant that the gutter-installers have nothing to do with the roof-installers, and that she will send somebody on 12/18, and it probably will be 3 weeks before they can install it...

I am under an impression they just wanted the business, and this was unethical of them to led us on... I got 2 badgering calls today and a follow up email that quote "I have to pay NOW since it's been pending for way too long". Way too long? My husband was speaking to the owner to address our concerns TODAY, and the crew just got done with the project on 12/16...

Anyways, what comes around goes around. We paid today since we wanted to fulfill the contract, but I am so uneasy with this whole experience. I definitely feel cheated.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:01 PM   #10
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You let them work on the roof without even reading an estimate, then signing a quote?
Hmm.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:07 PM   #11
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Clearly a lack of communication by the roofer in this case. They also needed to be far more available, sounded like a pita to get a simple question answered.

Out of curiosity, did you pay in full before the roof was finaled by the city? Had the guy been acting like that to me I would have made sure the inspection was also done before they got a dime.

While I think the roofer was due payment, if he was done and finaled by the city that is, they clearly sound like a bunch of a holes. If you don't get a cell # of the sales rep or installation manager that would be a red flag to me.

How did you come across them ? did you check there yelp or AL? Those will at least weed out the obvious dirt bags.
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:11 PM   #12
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Joecaption,
I read the contract, and there was nothing about the gutters in it, that's why it was addressed this with the assistant, and I was advised that the gutter fee is "separate", and that they will send an estimator quote "at the job start".
That's why I was under impression roofer-contractor and gutter-contractor communicated, and all this will be done within the same time period. Not once was I told roofer-contractor has anything to do with the gutter-contractor and that it will "probably be no less than 3 weeks before gutters can be installed", until after the roof work was done.

The roofers also had me sign a change order for fascia replacement after my verbal approval, however they did not have me sign a change order when they were taking down gutters, verbal OK was enough for them. The least they could do was to warn me that it would probably be a few weeks before gutters can be installed by gutter-contractor. Very convenient for them: took the gutters down with no responsibility to owner, no explanation as to the time-frame, etc.

I find this company acting unethical.
Either way, what comes around, goes around
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:16 PM   #13
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AndyWRS,
I found them on Angies List, and I check them out on BBB as well to make sure company has been in business for a while (since 1999), and that it had no grounded complaints. They have really good reviews on both websites, however I see good reviews and checking background on the company is not enough ((

I DID have a gut feeling that I should not go with them, from the very beginning they had a "take it or leave it" approach, and I felt screwed/pushed over a few times, however I wanted to trust the reviews and the background check, the REASONING and LOGIC, and not my "FEELINGS'. Well, next time I will not
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:20 PM   #14
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I paid 10% in advance, then 90% the next day they completed the project.
I received the quote a year ago (we had to postpone this), and was advised there is a 8% increase in the cost. My husband brought it down to 3% (inflation is not even that much), however we were advised if we pay with a credit card, there will be an extra 3% fee, which we agreed to pay.
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Old 12-18-2013, 09:36 PM   #15
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Was a permit card not visibly posted on the job site? You sort of implied you didn't know if they got a permit a few posts ago.

If they didn't, I would be very concerned about the workmanship and infact would not have paid them anything until a permit was pulled and the proper inspections were performed. Not sure about SD, but just north of you some cities require two inspections...a few even want a third.

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