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Old 01-10-2013, 01:17 PM   #1
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Product Hydro Spot Roof system


Does anyone know anyone in the New York/Long Island area that uses this cool roof system and knows the proper application?

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Old 01-10-2013, 02:30 PM   #2
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Can you elaborate please? Never mind. You apparently meant Hydro-Stop, not Hydro-Spot.

Looks like an elastomeric coating masquerading as a roof system. This has been tried ad-nauseum.

If you have an old wet low slope roof, forget about it, it wont work.

Its a coating, not a roof. Regardless of their sales pitch.

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Last edited by jagans; 01-10-2013 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 11-01-2015, 08:48 AM   #3
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HydroStop / Premium Coat Roofing System?


So if you are not a fan of HydroStop, what do you recommend if one wants a +50 year life from initial install + maintenance?

Do you have direct experience with HydroStop / Premium Coat when it's installed over a properly cleaned-repaired-prepared flat concrete deck, tapered isoboard, then only HydroStop per manufacturers specs?

Anyone have a HydroStop - Premium Coat roof that is over 20 years old? 30? Maximum?

Thanks in advance;
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Old 11-01-2015, 11:23 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDE View Post
So if you are not a fan of HydroStop, what do you recommend if one wants a +50 year life from initial install + maintenance?

Do you have direct experience with HydroStop / Premium Coat when it's installed over a properly cleaned-repaired-prepared flat concrete deck, tapered isoboard, then only HydroStop per manufacturers specs?

Anyone have a HydroStop - Premium Coat roof that is over 20 years old? 30? Maximum?

Thanks in advance;
PDE
I could be wrong, but since I have never heard of Hydro-stop, it must be relatively new, therefore nobody is going to have a hydro-stop roof that is over 20 years old. Once again, you are talking about a coating, not a roof system, A roof "System" by definition includes everything from the structural roof deck uo ie Thermal Insulation, coverboard, and roof membrane, which can be one of many many types, Single Ply, Built up, Modified Bitumen. You have subsets of all, mechanically fastened, fully adhered, ballasted.

A membrane applied as a liquid is a coating, not a roof system. The only low slope roof system I ever encountered that was over 40 years old was a 5 ply coal tar pitch roof applied directly onto a massive concrete deck which acted as a heat sink. It was on a staging facility on a river in New Jersey where Sherman tanks were loaded on transport ships to be sent to Europe during WW2. The floors of that facility were 8 foot thick reinforced concrete. The coping stoned were 2 x 2 foot limestone over 20 oz. copper, most of which had been stolen. When you start talking 50 year life span you are usually talking steep roofs, lead (which they use on Cathedrals) Good quality Slate, (Peach Bottom, Buckingham) Copper, and the like.

Again, a liquid is a paint, period. Good Luck.
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Old 11-01-2015, 12:37 PM   #5
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HydroStop / Premium Coat Roofing System?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jagans View Post
I could be wrong, but since I have never heard of Hydro-stop, it must be relatively new, therefore nobody is going to have a hydro-stop roof that is over 20 years old. Once again, you are talking about a coating, not a roof system, A roof "System" by definition includes everything from the structural roof deck uo ie Thermal Insulation, coverboard, and roof membrane, which can be one of many many types, Single Ply, Built up, Modified Bitumen. You have subsets of all, mechanically fastened, fully adhered, ballasted.

A membrane applied as a liquid is a coating, not a roof system. The only low slope roof system I ever encountered that was over 40 years old was a 5 ply coal tar pitch roof applied directly onto a massive concrete deck which acted as a heat sink. It was on a staging facility on a river in New Jersey where Sherman tanks were loaded on transport ships to be sent to Europe during WW2. The floors of that facility were 8 foot thick reinforced concrete. The coping stoned were 2 x 2 foot limestone over 20 oz. copper, most of which had been stolen. When you start talking 50 year life span you are usually talking steep roofs, lead (which they use on Cathedrals) Good quality Slate, (Peach Bottom, Buckingham) Copper, and the like.

Again, a liquid is a paint, period. Good Luck.
If you haven't heard of HydroStop - have you heard of GAF that just bought Quest Construction Products? QCP bought HydroStop in 2007, so it's been around a while.

Ok, given that this is sales material from Quest, attached is a brochure with the following:
http://www.quest-cp.com/premiumcoat-system
Page 6 Quotes:
One Roof For Life
* The only roof that lasts as long as the building
* Ownership costs much less than comparable roof systems

LIFESPAN:
Roof System Life Expectancy (Data provided by National Roofing Foundation, from study of low-sloped roofs)
Roofing System -- Life Expectancy -- Roofing Systems installed
--------------------- (in years) ------- over 40 year life
EPDM Ballasted --- 13 ------------------ 3.08
BUR --------------- 16 ------------------ 2.5
Modified Bitumen - 21 ------------------ 1.9
PVC ---------------- 13 ------------------ 3.08
TPO ---------------- 13 ------------------ 3.08
Fluid-Applied ----- Infinite -------------- 1

Page 7: EXTENDS ROOF LIFESPAN According to the National Roofing Foundation, the average service life of a low-sloped roof is 17 years. With proper maintenance, a fluid-applied roof system can last the LIFE OF THE BUILDING.

Page 7 continued: Along with recommended annual cleaning, once every ten years (on average) a maintenance layer of the fluid-applied roof system is applied.

Page 11: Quest offers fabric-reinforced acrylic elastomer systems such as PremiumCoat. These Class 1, FM 4470 approved roofing systems function both as stand-alone roof systems and as recover systems... The are internally plasticized adn meet ASTM D-6083 for items sch as flexibility, mechanical properties, adhesion, etc.

Not trying to promote this company - product, just trying to find others with experience, either good or bad, to help decide if we should install this roofing system. Again, we plan to tear off the old TPO and ISO, inspect - repair the desk, then install tapered ISO for insulation and provide some slope, followed by roof system as recommended by manufacturer - general contractor hired to professionally install.
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Old 11-01-2015, 12:41 PM   #6
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To download the brochure quoted, click on this link:
http://www.quest-cp.com/premiumcoat-system

Then click on Product Information - Applications & Literature;
then on Right side is Fluid Applied Roofing Systems Brochure.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:26 PM   #7
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Holy smokes. You flushed out jagans.
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Old 11-01-2015, 06:27 PM   #8
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LOL -- Don't mean to intentionally 'flush out' anyone; especially a 'Roof Master' that's doing me a favor by replying.

Just trying to sort out the BS and opinions from verifiable facts!

Am not a roof expert, but am an engineer willing to use the internet to dig, thus far it seems this is the best practical system. Yes, have also seen video's of a fiberglass system that with sufficient UV protection is reported to last +50 years. Also grant that most long life systems are either hand clad copper on steep roofs with no traffic and limited penetrations, or very old slate roofs with proper felt - installation that's very costly to replicate today. FiberTite also advertises that 99% of their installed roofs are still in service today, but my main concern is penetrations - flashings where am told +75% of roof leaks start!

Per some roofing expert - the only TRUE verification of a roof that will last +50 years, is to find those roofs TODAY, then try to duplicate if they haven't changed the formula, installation, etc! Again, the devil is in the details - not the advertisements.

Thanks for all replies, even when don't agree...
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:37 AM   #9
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This is a loaded question.

By 50 year roof are we talking the material lasting 50 years or 50 years with out leaks? 50 years with out leaks will never happen, even on most steep slope roofs.

As mentioned coal tar pitch would be the closest to lasting that long. A 90 mil EPDM with a coating every 5-10 years I think would last that long. We recently recoated a 3 ply hot roof with a smooth cap sheet, it's on a small back porch, two valleys dump on to it original to the house I think he said somewhere around 35-40 years. Everything looked really good, again he coated it every 5 years like clock work and had someone looking over it and cleaning up leaves ect 2 times a year.

Coatings have their place, and when installed over a new traditional roof system they can extend the life of that roof system.

As far as GAF goes, that's who's coatings we mainly install, the Top Coat line, GAF has a tendency to buy out their competition. Not that their is anything wrong with that.
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:50 AM   #10
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WHat the hell is the National Roofing Foundation?

The National Roofing Contractors Association (NRCA) is the go to sourse for facts regarding roofing. The Roof Consultants Institute (RCI) and the SHeet Metal and Air Conditioning National Association SMACNA. are also very good sources.

Let me try this again. A roof waterproofing membrane is a matrix which consists of one or more reinforing layers and at least two layers of waterproofing material. If a roof system fails, and you paint a waterproofing material onto the failed roof, the failure usually telegraphs through the overlay (Paint) Of course I have heard of GAF There was a shingle plant in the town right next to the town I grew up in. I have toured the plant in Baltimore also. Name dropping does not change the fact that a roof coating is not a roof system.

If you paint your house does that mean you have a new house?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PDE View Post
If you haven't heard of HydroStop - have you heard of GAF that just bought Quest Construction Products? QCP bought HydroStop in 2007, so it's been around a while.

Ok, given that this is sales material from Quest, attached is a brochure with the following:
http://www.quest-cp.com/premiumcoat-system
Page 6 Quotes:
One Roof For Life
* The only roof that lasts as long as the building
* Ownership costs much less than comparable roof systems

LIFESPAN:
Roof System Life Expectancy (Data provided by National Roofing Foundation, from study of low-sloped roofs)
Roofing System -- Life Expectancy -- Roofing Systems installed
--------------------- (in years) ------- over 40 year life
EPDM Ballasted --- 13 ------------------ 3.08
BUR --------------- 16 ------------------ 2.5
Modified Bitumen - 21 ------------------ 1.9
PVC ---------------- 13 ------------------ 3.08
TPO ---------------- 13 ------------------ 3.08
Fluid-Applied ----- Infinite -------------- 1

Page 7: EXTENDS ROOF LIFESPAN According to the National Roofing Foundation, the average service life of a low-sloped roof is 17 years. With proper maintenance, a fluid-applied roof system can last the LIFE OF THE BUILDING.

Page 7 continued: Along with recommended annual cleaning, once every ten years (on average) a maintenance layer of the fluid-applied roof system is applied.

Page 11: Quest offers fabric-reinforced acrylic elastomer systems such as PremiumCoat. These Class 1, FM 4470 approved roofing systems function both as stand-alone roof systems and as recover systems... The are internally plasticized adn meet ASTM D-6083 for items sch as flexibility, mechanical properties, adhesion, etc.

Not trying to promote this company - product, just trying to find others with experience, either good or bad, to help decide if we should install this roofing system. Again, we plan to tear off the old TPO and ISO, inspect - repair the desk, then install tapered ISO for insulation and provide some slope, followed by roof system as recommended by manufacturer - general contractor hired to professionally install.
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:59 AM   #11
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Thanks for the reply. Do YOU have any direct experience with HydroStop - Premium Coat?

50 Years - more of a personal goal, real one is +100 years for the effective roof life, but know this would be a stretch goal! :-) Yes, am serious since have training as a Technical Limit Performance Engineer. What is technically possible with today's technology - products - installation - knowledge - experience!

Per the Miami-Dade Country (NOA) Notification of Acceptance for use document (too large to attach), page 3:
Evidence Submitted:
Test Agency - Applied Research Laboratories
Test Identifier 29295
Description ASTM D 6083
Date 02/16/95

This seems to indicate that the product, or some version of same, was tested +20 years ago. Therefore trying to find Roofing Experts that have direct experience with the product over a long period of time. The company says after initial installation, with proper care and maintenance, including recoating with PremiumCoat every 7 to 10 years, that the warranty can be extended 10 years each time - for an INFINITE amount of time. Yes, realize this does not mean Leak-Free, but if just have to potentially repair small areas with Foundation Coat + membrane + Foundation Coat, then recoat or add another layer of Premium Coat paint; this in my mind would be a effective roofing system lasting over 50 years.

Would this be more effective and cost less than the above standard Coal Tar Pitch roof system, recoated every 5 years? Economics of the QCP Brochure seem to indicate Maintenance Cost (only product) of roughly 75 cents / square foot every 10 years! Over 40 years total install + maintenance cost of less than $7/square foot. Compared to BUR, life expectancy of 16 years each, so 2.5 roofs for 40 years; total cost of ?
Brouchure: QCPwhy-fluid-applied-roofing_sm.pdf

The only doc can attach is QCP - Preventative Maintenance for PremiumCoat System. Bottom Bullet Point quoted:
* Quest Construction Products may notify the building owner during the final year of the warranty so the roof can be inspected and preparations can be made for the re-coat process necessary for warranty renewal.

Seems to me that if the Warranty can be extended multiple times, there is a chance the roof will be relatively leak free with proper care and maintenance. Yes, it's work, but per the example above might be possible to achieve a +50 year roof effective life!

Thanks again for the reply as am waiting for Technical Sales Rep to return my inquiries! PDE
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Old 11-02-2015, 11:18 AM   #12
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Jagans reply includes: "Let me try this again. A roof waterproofing membrane is a matrix which consists of one or more reinforing layers and at least two layers of waterproofing material. If a roof system fails, and you paint a waterproofing material onto the failed roof, the failure usually telegraphs through the overlay (Paint)".

Ok, yes, fully AGREE! Roof System includes multiple components.

Why does Jagan NOT agree that QCP - GAF is a FULL ROOFING SYSTEM? Per the company and above QCP has:
*Primer to go down on almost any base - new construction concrete or old roof systems.
* Water proof comprised of a base coat of liquid applied HydroStop Foundation Coat PLUS a polyester membrane PLUS a top layer of HydroStop Foundation Coat. Just had a fairly long and detailed conversation with the GAF Area Technical Rep.
* Multiple COATS of the PremiumCoat - or paint pe Jagans. This, as explained by the GAF Area Technical Rep is a Sacrifical or Barrier that protects the Foundation Coat + Membrane that provides the true water proofing. Hence over the years, the top coat that is exposed to the environment wears away and roughly every 7 to 10 years is cleaned and reapplied!

Yes, like repainting a house, one does NOT get a new house each time it's painted! Agree. BUT as long as the level of protection is fully updated - whats the difference? Not seeking a new building each 10 years, simply seeking to KEEP an effective building envelope!

Seems to me that GAF - QCP has a full roofing system, with multiple components. Guess am not clearly explaining as Jagans is focused ONLY on the coating of Premium Coat. So exactly how does one get a title of 'Roof Master' on here? Does this mean one has simply made x number of posts - or is some level of skill and expertise required?

http://www.quest-cp.com/premiumcoat-system
Is this NOT a Roofing SYSTEM? Maybe am very, very slow and dense, but sure looks like a multi component system to me... But again, am simply a 'newbie' on here! :-)
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:21 PM   #13
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From Jagans Profile:
About jagans "BiographyProficient in Carpentry, Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC, Profesional Registered Roof consultant for 25yr"Humm... Professional is misspelled and maybe it's time that an old dog learns new tricks?

Can anyone advise of another Roofing System that advertised "Roof for the life of the building" with the backing - reputation similar to GAF? Am very interested if anyone can, as we are about to spend +$1/4 million US on a new one and want it to be the best on the market for our building and climate!

Thanks in advance;
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDE View Post
Jagans reply includes: "Let me try this again. A roof waterproofing membrane is a matrix which consists of one or more reinforing layers and at least two layers of waterproofing material. If a roof system fails, and you paint a waterproofing material onto the failed roof, the failure usually telegraphs through the overlay (Paint)".

Ok, yes, fully AGREE! Roof System includes multiple components.

Why does Jagan NOT agree that QCP - GAF is a FULL ROOFING SYSTEM? Per the company and above QCP has:
*Primer to go down on almost any base - new construction concrete or old roof systems.
* Water proof comprised of a base coat of liquid applied HydroStop Foundation Coat PLUS a polyester membrane PLUS a top layer of HydroStop Foundation Coat. Just had a fairly long and detailed conversation with the GAF Area Technical Rep.
* Multiple COATS of the PremiumCoat - or paint pe Jagans. This, as explained by the GAF Area Technical Rep is a Sacrifical or Barrier that protects the Foundation Coat + Membrane that provides the true water proofing. Hence over the years, the top coat that is exposed to the environment wears away and roughly every 7 to 10 years is cleaned and reapplied!

Yes, like repainting a house, one does NOT get a new house each time it's painted! Agree. BUT as long as the level of protection is fully updated - whats the difference? Not seeking a new building each 10 years, simply seeking to KEEP an effective building envelope!

Seems to me that GAF - QCP has a full roofing system, with multiple components. Guess am not clearly explaining as Jagans is focused ONLY on the coating of Premium Coat. So exactly how does one get a title of 'Roof Master' on here? Does this mean one has simply made x number of posts - or is some level of skill and expertise required?

http://www.quest-cp.com/premiumcoat-system
Is this NOT a Roofing SYSTEM? Maybe am very, very slow and dense, but sure looks like a multi component system to me... But again, am simply a 'newbie' on here! :-)
PDE

This is fairly simple: while you are including a primer, base coat, rienforcing layer and top coat, you are (I assume) spraying or rolling this conglomeration onto a failed surface. If you completely remove the existing failed roof system down to a monolitic deck, such as structural concrete, then yes, you have a good chance of success. there are cases when you can recover an existing roof, but that is a very involved subject and requires a lot of roofing knowledge. You also have to consider where you want the dew point to fall in your roofing system, as installing the membrane directly to a structural deck would in effect give you a vapor retarder, unless you were to go with an inverted roof system.

Low slope roofing is very involved, my friend, and there have been hundreds, and maybe thousands of "This roof does it all" acclimations by every single manufacturer out there. Get yourself a copy of the warranty, and go right to the small, usually light gray type on the back of the warranty. You will usually find more loopholes that that found in Swiss Cheese, and most warranties are not what we call Full System Warranties. I like to call them Kodak Film Warranties, which is: "If this film fails we will give you a new roll of film" They do not pay for your trip back to Africa and the Safari on which you captured that great image of Elephants frolicking in the mud.

Most of roofing is common sense, except that which lies beyond simple reason, like chemical incompatibility. Most people do not put a new roof on preventatively, in other words, most people are reacting to leaks, and most people do not react until the leaks get so bad that the roof in question is toast, and beyond repair.

You do not want to adhere a new roof system, coating etc. etc. directly to a failed roof system, and you most definitely do not want to leave trapped water in an existing roof system, and go over it. I do not even know what kind of roof you have but if you have the right type, You may be able to do a non destructive survey and determine the extent of moisture intrusion into your existing roof system. Unfortunately the price of Infrared cameras has come down so much that any wing nut can buy one, and a camera in the hads of someone with little to no knowledge regarding low slope roofing is not only worthless, but dangerous, because bad info is worse than no info. To give you an idea, our first camera cost $33,000 dollars. Obviously that took a commitment to buy.

Do not buy the bull**** pedaled by salesmen. If you can, get yourself a copy of the NRCA Roofing and Waterproofing Manual and get smart. There is an awful lot of sage advice in there. Also pick up the NRCA HARK (Handbook of Accepted Roofing Knowledge)
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:40 PM   #15
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Jagans - thanks for multiple replies


Jagans - reposting from my post above:
"Not trying to promote this company - product, just trying to find others with experience, either good or bad, to help decide if we should install this roofing system. Again, we plan to tear off the old TPO and ISO, inspect - repair the deck, then install tapered ISO for insulation and provide some slope, followed by roof system as recommended by manufacturer - general contractor hired to professionally install."

Fully agree and not focused on the Warranty offered - trying to focus on real solutions as we have to replace our currently roofing system. We hired a licensed Roof Inspector to do a Nuclear Survey on 5'x5' grids, and +85% of the results on this moisture survey were above spec. Therefore have been informed per local code - we HAVE to tear off and start over!

The condo has flat concrete structural deck with Post-Tension Cable system. It is 13 stories tall, and roughly 76' wide x 236' long; roughly 18,000 square feet.

Current plan, subject to revision:
We have hired a licensed professional engineer to do a building inspection of structure + electrical + roof + all mechanical systems + paving-foundation + sea wall + anything that we need to address for the next 12 years. We are required to pass a Structural and Electrical Recertification in April 2017. Therefore putting together a plan of what to do - when to do it and estimated costs between now and the 40 year recert due in 2017, and up to the 50 year recert required in 2027! This will ensure we don't have any deferred maintenance - overlooked projects that impact the building.

Back to the repairs as we have to replace the ROOF and do exterior repair/repainting of the entire building. Current Rough Plan:
Finalize 12 Year Reserve Study - Projects and Timeline
Tear OFF the entire current roofing system, down to building structural deck
Clean - inspect - repair as needed with plan not to see it for +100 years!
Install anchors for work over the side of the building, as needed
Install base waterproofing system OR LightWeight concrete / ISO board for TAPER of at least 1/8" per 12" up to 1/2" per 12" (optimal?) followed by waterproofing.
Paint with non-skid material
Complete other building repairs which will require work on/from the roof
Once ALL other repairs are finished and roof traffic back to minimal, THEN clean roof and install final coats of sealant per contractor and manufacturer recommends for a +20 year warranty.

Once all this is done, hire the Registered Professional Engineer AND someone from manufacturer to come do yearly inspections as needed to maintain the roof and to a lesser extend the roof warranty. One sheet of paper will do NOTHING to make the roof leak free. But incorporating contractor and Manufactures Best Practices into our 12 Year Building Management Plan should go a long way to remaining leak-free at the lowest overall total install + maintenance cost for the next +50 years! THIS is our goal, not having a limited warranty. We have one now from JP Stevens - DOW for a TPO that was installed 12 years ago, and if one has any real roofing experience, they can advise what this warranty is worth...

Sorry for long post, but I DO understand it's the product - application - maintenance that makes a difference. So seeking input on HOW we can improve our plan detailed above. Thanks for your time and consideration!
PDE

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