Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Roofing/Siding

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-27-2008, 11:28 AM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Share |
Default

Problems With Atlas Shingles


I have a study that shows the correlation between asphalt deterioration and underside temperature variations.

I believe it was a reference by William Rose in a technical paper, which showed a reduction of 25% for a set degree amount of temperature increase and would obviously infer that additional temperature increases would likely further increase the asphalt degradation.

Ed

Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2008, 11:58 AM   #17
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Default

Problems With Atlas Shingles


Ah-ha that's where I read it, in one of your posts, Ed, from last year!
__________________
“The average American woman is about 25 pounds heavier than she was in 1960...Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately 1 in 3 Americans,”
ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2008, 02:59 PM   #18
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
Default

Problems With Atlas Shingles


Here is my point. If someone is going to supply a warranty that has anything to do with environmental conditions then they need to supply enviromental limits with detailed definition of the conditions. It means nothing in the engineering world or the law to state "inadequate ventilation" or "studies show". These are ambiguous statements. If the detailed enviromental conditions are not stated then the warranty is understood to hold for all natural conditions except "acts of God". So far I have seen no such technical description that goes along with the shingle warranty. I have heard a lot of ambiguous statements.

M. Johnson
Texas
M. Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2008, 11:04 PM   #19
Member
 
the roofing god's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pomona,New York,10970
Posts: 877
Send a message via MSN to the roofing god
Default

Problems With Atlas Shingles


MOST DO QUOTE THE NEED FOR ADEQUATE BALANCED VENTILATION,AND ALSO SHOW DIAGRAMS ON OR INSIDE THE WRAPPER SHOWING WHERE NAILS SHOULD BE PROPERLY PLACED as well as what procedure/design to follow when they are installed,pretty straightforward in that respect
__________________
"If it`s worth doing,It`s worth doing right!!"

www.ADVANCEDROOFINGNEWYORK.com
the roofing god is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2008, 11:13 PM   #20
Member
 
the roofing god's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pomona,New York,10970
Posts: 877
Send a message via MSN to the roofing god
Default

Problems With Atlas Shingles


you`re roof was unvented,in the past 10 years "all" mfgr`s state necessity for balanced ventilation between the soffits and ridge of a home,surely one of your higher costing bids pointed this out,and was ignored in favor of the cheaper bid which you felt was for the same thing,you can still point blame at your contractor,but you have certainly given the shingle company the out they required-I would recommend you get hold of a bundle of ATLAS shingles ,and read what they have written,whether on the exterior,or the interior of the wrapper,my experience is that most companies state their warranties,and disclaimers there for the world to see--Best of luck
__________________
"If it`s worth doing,It`s worth doing right!!"

www.ADVANCEDROOFINGNEWYORK.com
the roofing god is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2008, 12:50 AM   #21
Doing This Way Too Long
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 1,120
Default

Problems With Atlas Shingles


Ya know guys, we'd probably get a lot more of the mainstream resi jobs out there if we changed our tactics and didn't give them bids for a thorough and proper roof system. But then again, I like getting my full six hours of sleep every night.
OldNBroken is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to OldNBroken For This Useful Post:
gspina (10-07-2011)
Old 07-28-2008, 08:01 PM   #22
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
Default

Problems With Atlas Shingles


There were no "cheaper" bids. My home was custom built by a builder who builds multi-million dollar homes, and still does. I was not asked. It was a given the roofer knew what he was doing. Apparently the only mistake made were the shingles. I guess when it comes to roofers the prospective home owner should intervene and make certain Atlas shingles are not used. According to the arbitrary and ambiguous statements made by roofers of "adequate" my home was "adequately" ventilated. If there were shortcomings, and I do not believe there were warranty voiding shortcomings (whatever those are), it was a consequence of the roofing company's selection of shingles.

I have seen a lot of handwaving and heard a lot of ambiguous talk which does not translate into technical specifications. When one sells an aerospace product to the government and warranties it for 30 years the environmental conditions are stated. The aerospace company does not state to the government this product will last 30 years if you treat it "adequately". One would be laughed out of the business for such a statement. Handwaving does not go very for in engineering and science. If one is not going to define the conditions technically then one must warranty for all conditions short of acts of God.

Apparently, when it comes to roofing and materials and the short-lived nature of the roofing business, everyone has a way out the back door except the homeowner.

M. Johnson
Texas
M. Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2008, 09:32 PM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Default

Problems With Atlas Shingles


Your builder putting up those multi-million dollar homes may be the party to seek renumeration from.

They built the structure and they and the architectural/engineering firms should be responsible for knowing the product specifications and local codes for your materials to have been installed in such a way, so as to not void your warranty.

Here are 2 paragraphs from the Atlas website regarding warranty installation instruction so as to not null and void the warranty.

From this link: http://www.atlasroofing.com/pages/In...ion-res-19.asp

"2.) ROOF DECK VENTILATION
Adequate ventilation under the roof deck must be provided to prevent harmful condensation in winter and heat build-up in summer. These conditions can cause: A.) Accelerated roof weathering; B.) Deck rot and attic fungus; C.) Shingle distortion/cracking due to deck movement; D.) Blisters. Atlas will not be responsible for damage to shingles as a result of inadequate ventilation.

Ventilation provisions must meet or exceed current FHA Minimum Property Standards and conform to all building codes and regulations.

To best ensure adequate ventilation and circulation of air, a combination of vents at ridge and eaves should be used. All roof structures, especially mansard and cathedral type ceilings, must have complete through ventilation from bottom to top.

FHA Minimum Property Standards require 1 square foot of net free attic vent area for every 150 feet of attic floor area; or one square foot per every 300 square feet, if vapor barrier is installed on the warm side of the ceiling, or at least one half the ventilation area is provided near the ridge.

3.) ROOF DECK
These instructions are for the application of shingles to nominal 1/2" thick American Plywood Association (APA) rated, code approved plywood, non-veneer decks or minimum 1" thick (nominal) wood decks. The plywood or non-veneer decks must comply with the specifications of the APA. The wood decking must be well seasoned, not over 6" (nominal) width, and fastened securely to each rafter. Do not use green, unseasoned sheathing or undried, recently stripped form lumber. Deck surface should be clean, bare and flat. PINNACLE® shingles must not be applied to any surface, other than roof deck types described.

Atlas honors its limited shingle warranty when using Atlas shingles with the Atlas CrossVent Nailable insulation. Atlas will not be responsible for the performance of its shingles if applied directly to decks composed of perlite board, plastic foam, fiberboard, gypsum plank, lightweight concrete, cementitious wood fiber, or similar materials or to any decks directly installed over insulation with the exception of CrossVent™ Nailable insulation.



Now, I do not know how high the tolerences and specifications are for aerospace engineered products, but I imagine that the specifications must be of the highest quality.

An asphalt manufactured product begins its degradation and decaying process the instant it comes out of the bundle wrapper and gets installed, exposing the product to the UV rays of the sun.

The most commonly accepted theory and best practices include following the specifications to provide the best environment for the product to withstand the test of time.

If your home was not ventilated, at least to the "Minimum" specifactions, how could you presume that the material would function properly.

I know you had no part in the building and specifying of either the materials or the contractor and his crew who installed them, but you need more proof that the ventilation meets the standards, than just a statement without any mathematically calculated proof to back up your hypothesis, with your statement:
"to the arbitrary and ambiguous statements made by roofers of "adequate" my home was "adequately" ventilated."

I am NOT trying to diminish the merits of your claimed material malfunction, but you do need to follow the instructions and determine, by the attic floor square footage dimensions, if your builder/roofer/architect/engineer provided you with a legitimate case to argue.

To not have the back up calculations would be akin to saying your car engine froze up after having the oil changed, but refusing to allow them to see if there were any oil in the crank case to verify the complaint.

What is the footprint area dimensions of your entire attic floor space?

How many and of what size soffit intake vents do you have installed for the intake ventilation?

How many in quantity, or how many lineal feet, of roof top exhaust ventilation products do you have installed?

Can you post a photo of all 4 sides elevation views from the ground for us to see?

After the dimensions and the required NFVA are determined, then a much more resonable answer can be provided.

Ed

Last edited by Ed the Roofer; 07-29-2008 at 04:51 PM.
Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2008, 09:51 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Default

Problems With Atlas Shingles


One final aide to assist you in determining the ventilation requiremens is this short article from
http://www.coastalcontractor.net/cgi...ticle.pl?id=28

Ed


Roof Ventilation by the Numbers
The standard roof ventilation requirement used in building codes and asphalt roofing manufacturers calls for 1 square foot of "net free ventilation area" for every 300 square feet of ceiling area (attic floor area) when vents are evenly divided — half of them high on the roof at the ridge, gable, or a high roof, and half low on the roof at the eaves. The alternative is to vent only with low (soffit) vents, by doubling the "net free vent area" to 1 square foot per 150 square feet of ceiling area.

All manufactured roof venting products (soffit vents, venting drip-edge, gable vents, roof vents, and ridge vents) are labeled for "net free vent area." In the case of soffit vent strips and ridge vents, this capacity is listed in square inches per linear foot. For fixed-sized units, the capacity is published for the entire unit. Often it's necessary to convert the square footage of vent area to the published net free vent area in inches to make sure you are meeting the requirement.

For example, a house with a 28-foot by 40-foot ceiling has an area of 1,120 square feet. With soffit vents only, you'd divide that area by 150 square feet to come up with the "net free vent area" in square feet (1,120 / 150 = 7.47 square feet). But because the net free vent area for most vents is listed in square inches, I find it easier to convert the calculated square foot vent area into square inches. There are 144 square inches in a square foot (12 inches x 12 inches), so I multiply 7.47 x 144 = 1,075.68 square inches of net free vent area. Using a strip vent product listed for 9 square inches per linear foot requires you to make only one simple division calculation: 1,075.68 / 9 = 119.5 linear feet of vent. — M.G.
Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 12:12 PM   #25
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
Default

Problems With Atlas Shingles


The combination supply house and roofer that did my house was bought out by another outfit and the new outfit does not take any responsibility for my job.

I will do my own calculations and see whether or not after 10 years my ventilation has abused those delicate, sun sensitive, 30 year, Atlas Pinnacle I shingles. Maybe I need to open up my evaporator in the attic to cool them down.

My recommendation to anyone who has a roof put on is to constantly monitor one's ceiling sheetrock and when one sees staining then one knows the warranty has run out and it is time for a new roof at one's own expense. That I believe is what a shingle, roofing company, or supply house warranty really means.

Bye For Good!

M. Johnson
Texas
M. Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 12:21 PM   #26
Member
 
the roofing god's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pomona,New York,10970
Posts: 877
Send a message via MSN to the roofing god
Default

Problems With Atlas Shingles


Everything Has Uses And Requirements To Reach Warranty Requirements,there Is No Hand Waving Here Just Straight Facts,you Seem To Be Upset That You Trusted The Wrong People,that`s Not The People Who Volunteer Their Time Here To Put You In The Proper Perspective,most Contractor Parties Here Are To Advise Unwitting Homeowners Like Yourself Of What To Do,and/or Watch Out For,unfortunately For You ,you Didn`t Look For Advice Till 10 Years After-blame Yourself For The Lapse In Judgement,my Customers Always Get The Proper Job As I Recommend To Others Here As Well-i Never Use Atlas Shingles-maybe You Should Have Done The Research Nasa Does
__________________
"If it`s worth doing,It`s worth doing right!!"

www.ADVANCEDROOFINGNEWYORK.com
the roofing god is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 06:51 PM   #27
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Default

Problems With Atlas Shingles


Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Johnson View Post
The combination supply house and roofer that did my house was bought out by another outfit and the new outfit does not take any responsibility for my job.

I will do my own calculations and see whether or not after 10 years my ventilation has abused those delicate, sun sensitive, 30 year, Atlas Pinnacle I shingles. Maybe I need to open up my evaporator in the attic to cool them down.

My recommendation to anyone who has a roof put on is to constantly monitor one's ceiling sheetrock and when one sees staining then one knows the warranty has run out and it is time for a new roof at one's own expense. That I believe is what a shingle, roofing company, or supply house warranty really means.

Bye For Good!

M. Johnson
Texas
I feel bad that you are so bitter because someone, especially a contractor who builds multi-million dollar homes, did not remain in business long enough to assist you in your warranty woes.

I recall back in the early 90's, when I first realized the dramatic impact that proper ventilation had on the longevity of the newly installed shinges.

It was at a time when I was doing an estimate and measuring a roof. I thought that 2 of the neighbors roofs looked familiar that we had done, but I could not believe the total state of aging and disrepair to one of them, so I looked up their job files and disovered that the one that still looked brand new, had chosen to have us install our recommended ridge ventilation. The other one, which was 2 years newer, had not chosen that recomended option and their roof looked like it was over 10 years old already. (worse than that even)

Mind you, both roofs were in the same environment and on the same block with similarly built homes, and they both had the same brand and style of cheaper lightweight 3-tab shingles installed, which at that time, was the Johns Manville Weather Seals.

The 5 year old roof with the proper ventilation looked new still, whereas the 3 year old roof was prematurely aged. Was that all due to the lack of ventilation? I doubt it, but I will say, that it must have been a major contributing factor.

Since that time, rather than listing the proper upgrades for more efficient ventilation, I have automatically included it with the written specifications, so that more consumers could benefit for a longer period of time, although it has definitely cost me plenty of sales, because the majority of contractors will use cheaper and inferior ventilation products and claim they are all the same, I still believe providing a properly done job to the best of my knowledge and ability is the only course of action for me to take.

In your case, I wish that the builder would have upraded his fee from $500,000 to $500,300 dollars, or whatever the price was in retrospect, so that you could have been a satisfied client and not felt so abused by the manufacturers warranty requirements and proper specifications.

Also, for a token few more dollars per square of roofing materials, a more popular and reliable product could have been chosen as well.

I guess it is very hard times now in this economy, that even multi-million dollar home builders have been forced to go out of business. I know for a fact, that I can feel that builders pain.

Ed

Last edited by Ed the Roofer; 07-29-2008 at 06:54 PM.
Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 09:07 AM   #28
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3
Default

Problems With Atlas Shingles


I am very sorry for your trouble, but unfortunately you would be having the same problem no matter what manufacturer you chose. We all use the same program in the industry that calculates the minimum ventilation needed for a given roof. If you claim was denied due to inadaquite ventilation, then you do not meet the minimum requirements. This is a tough situation to be in. Unfortunately we see this far to often with flybynight roofers and builders. Due to the lifespan of a roof, many times the responsible party is long gone when trouble emerges. The roofers on this site obviously are responsible representitives, and I am sure they will agree that such flybynighters give them all a bad name. I understand they the do not like atlas shingles due to bad experiences, but some are ford guys, and some prefer chevy. Every manufacturer has had problems arise from time to time. Some swear by one while others curse them. Your best bet is to go with a roofer that has been around awhile. Try to avoid the used car salesmen types and find someone you like. Keep all of your paperwork in case a problem arises. Once you find a good roofer, go with what he recommends. He will know the product and how to best install it.
I hope your next roof is a trouble free one.
Atlasquality is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2008, 07:09 PM   #29
Residential Roofer
 
Slyfox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Struthers, Ohio
Posts: 803
Default

Problems With Atlas Shingles


Making the atlas comparison to a Ford person or Chevy person is not quite accurate, because they are a lower end product as far as quality.
Your right on the fact that all manufacrurers have simular problems with thier products every single year, and until the polititians set down and make them come up with a more clear and exceptable explanation to thier actuall warranty coverage this will continue to be a problem.
__________________
God Family Country Work Play
Facebook <> Twitter
Slyfox Exteriors Co.
Slyfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 04:00 PM   #30
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: georgia
Posts: 1
Default

Problems With Atlas Shingles


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharynmcgee View Post
I am currently in dispute with Atlas because I was told by 2 roofers and an building inspector that my shingles were defective. They have "blistered" after only 10 years...I have a 30 year warranty. My roofer said that the shingles were defective and yet Atlas will not honor their warranty. I am currently seeking legal representation regarding this matter. Have you had problems also?
I am having the same problems with my atlas shingles! I have spider cracks blisters and pitting and I have called atlas I told them that I have had my insurance company out 1 home inspector and 3 roofing companies and one contractor out and they all agree that my shingles are leaking due to pits and cracks. Moisture is getting through and my roof is just seven years old with a 30 year warranty. They had me remove 2 shingles and send them to there company, I did ! They had one of there quality control men come out to check my roof. I have been waiting for 2 weeks to hear the out come. I have 9 roof leaks now and can not repair them because water is penetrating through. I am trying to file a class action law suite because 6 of my neighbors are having the same problems also. My insurance company said they could not cover my roof because of the shingles. What is a man to do!

bunklah is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GAF Roof... the best EdPDX Roofing/Siding 73 09-12-2011 05:53 AM
Shingles per bundle redline Roofing/Siding 11 09-11-2011 10:41 PM
Are you having ice problems? Grumpy Roofing/Siding 27 02-17-2008 03:51 PM
bending shingles farrington135 Roofing/Siding 2 06-09-2007 10:40 AM
Roof problems - please help Michelle Roofing/Siding 7 06-28-2005 10:24 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.