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Problems With Atlas Shingles

228K views 116 replies 59 participants last post by  Peter Curtis 
#1 ·
I Would Be Interested In Hearing From Anyone Who Has Knowledge Of Problems (leaking, De-lamination, Etc, )with The Atlas "pinnacle" 35 Yr Laminated Shingles ( Also Georgia Pacific
(" Summitt" ) Shingle.
 
#78 ·
Commercial Roofer?



As a commercial roofer i find it odd that you use anything but low slope membrane roofs? Atlas is one of the newest upcoming shingles. In 2004 if you asked for Elk at a supply house they laughed you out. In 2007 when IKO made their push it was frowned on to be associated with them because they were cheap...Now its atlas. Every few years comes the new girl to the dance and although they're priced a buck or 2 less a square they certainly arent a cheap shingle. Atlas stand by their product and their contractors which is why weve put 1000 on already this season and intend on putting another 2k on throughout the country. Owens Corning and GAF tout how great they are yet a customer cant get thru the red corporate tape if they have to. Atlas is the only manufacturer ive dealt with thats contractor friendly since the 07 buy out of ELk. Mark my words, in a year Atlas will be the greatest thing since sliced bread and there will be a new up and coming brand...:thumbsup:
 
#3 ·
Atlas Roofing Products

Actually, as an employee of Atlas Roofing, I can tell you that Atlas Shingles are of the highest quality, with the most stringent production standards. Atlas Shingles are also nowhere near the cheapest on the market, but we are competitive. In my opinion, and shingle quality is my proffesion, the only competitor we have with respect to quality is a smaller company called Malarkey. We do not have leaking claims, with the exception of the use of architectural shingles on shallow pitch roofs, which they are not designed, or warranted for, and improper installation(normally, do it yourselfers). Experienced roofers will be familiar with the term filler. Filler is a substance added to the asphalt coating to make the shingle cheaper and achieve some desireable effects, such as minimizing sticking in the bundles. Atlas uses less filler than almost any manufacturer in the US but enough to ensure the desired pros, ultimately making it a better shingle. Last, but not least. Being a moderately sized company, our customer service is second to none. We will quickly settle any rightful claims in order to assure our good name that we have worked so diligently to establish. I hope this information is helpful.
 
#4 ·
I Would Be Interested In Hearing From Anyone Who Has Knowledge Of Problems (leaking, De-lamination, Etc, )with The Atlas "pinnacle" 35 Yr Laminated Shingles ( Also Georgia Pacific
(" Summitt" ) Shingle.

I am currently in dispute with Atlas because I was told by 2 roofers and an building inspector that my shingles were defective. They have "blistered" after only 10 years...I have a 30 year warranty. My roofer said that the shingles were defective and yet Atlas will not honor their warranty. I am currently seeking legal representation regarding this matter. Have you had problems also?
 
#30 ·
I am having the same problems with my atlas shingles! I have spider cracks blisters and pitting and I have called atlas I told them that I have had my insurance company out 1 home inspector and 3 roofing companies and one contractor out and they all agree that my shingles are leaking due to pits and cracks. Moisture is getting through and my roof is just seven years old with a 30 year warranty. They had me remove 2 shingles and send them to there company, I did ! They had one of there quality control men come out to check my roof. I have been waiting for 2 weeks to hear the out come. I have 9 roof leaks now and can not repair them because water is penetrating through. I am trying to file a class action law suite because 6 of my neighbors are having the same problems also. My insurance company said they could not cover my roof because of the shingles. What is a man to do!
 
#7 ·
Re Atlas pennacle shingle

I bought a house that was 6 years old with Atlas Pennacle shingles. There have been shingle repairs in the past that from what I was told was from wind damage. After we moved in we also had a thunderstorm that had 30-35 mile an hour winds, and had about 10 square feet of shingle blew off the roof. As I picked up the blown off shingles from the yard I noticed the nail holes were in the tar line, but the tar line was a good inch and a half above where the shingles are double thick. I'm no expert, so I called Atlas and asked the rep if when you install the shingles if you are supposed to drive the nails into where the tar strip was (She said YES!!!). Then I asked " But aren't you supposed to drive the nails where the shingle is double thick"?
(She said YES!!!!) I then asked how you are supposed to install the shingles on my house when the tar strip is a good inch and a half above where the shingle is double thick and if there is supposed to be a inch of grannuals in the gutters and pounds of it under all my down spouts? ( The line went silent ) Finally a person answered the line for the claims department. I have gotten three large roofing companies to look at the problem and all agree I have defective shingles. I'm putting together all the things Atlas want's in the claim package and will post how it goes. From what I have been told of Atlas and their claims process, You have to get a lawyer and file a lawsuit or your done before you start.
 
#53 ·
Help ... Atlas disaster

i bought a house that was 6 years old with atlas pennacle shingles. There have been shingle repairs in the past that from what i was told was from wind damage. After we moved in we also had a thunderstorm that had 30-35 mile an hour winds, and had about 10 square feet of shingle blew off the roof. As i picked up the blown off shingles from the yard i noticed the nail holes were in the tar line, but the tar line was a good inch and a half above where the shingles are double thick. I'm no expert, so i called atlas and asked the rep if when you install the shingles if you are supposed to drive the nails into where the tar strip was (she said yes!!!). Then i asked " but aren't you supposed to drive the nails where the shingle is double thick"?
(she said yes!!!!) i then asked how you are supposed to install the shingles on my house when the tar strip is a good inch and a half above where the shingle is double thick and if there is supposed to be a inch of grannuals in the gutters and pounds of it under all my down spouts? ( the line went silent ) finally a person answered the line for the claims department. I have gotten three large roofing companies to look at the problem and all agree i have defective shingles. I'm putting together all the things atlas want's in the claim package and will post how it goes. From what i have been told of atlas and their claims process, you have to get a lawyer and file a lawsuit or your done before you start.
same problem...did you ever get a resolution?
 
#8 ·
Very Poor Choice

I am currently renting a property in Oklahoma since a devastating fire damaged my home in Texas. Upon move in at this property, the owner informed us that she had just 2 months prior had a brand new roof put on. That was 4 months ago; they are supposedly 35 year shingles. Last week we had some strong winds. rain and hail. This started early in the day and I called to inform her the roof was "lifting", she seemed incredulous. She said her "roofer" would be out to take care of it immediately. He never showed up and throughout the day, more of the roof came off. It literally peeled off of the decking. The next day I went outside to inspect the damage...I would say at least 2 bundles of shingle lay in my yard along with flashing and felt. The shingles themselves were in poor condition and very thin and brittle with the color already fading and very little grit on them. As the former Commercial Sales Coordinator for a VERY major home improvement chain, I can say that I've never in my life seem such dismal quality in a roofing product.
 
#9 ·
Shareenmcgee-The ONLY way we would not honor a blistering claim, is if you have inadequit ventilation. Too little ventilation can cause extreme heat that can blister any shingle. I assure you the asphalt we use is no different from anyone elses. Have you actually filed a claim?

E Fisher-You are talking apples and oranges. The older shingles had a sealant line a couple of inches above the double thickness. You always nail in the double thickness. The reason you were told to nail throught the sealant is because our current shingle has sealant located on the double thickness. Sounds like your roof has a problem with high nailing. This is a problem that voids the warranty. ALL MANUFACTURERS WARRANTIES.

ARTEMIS729-By your timeline, the roof was installed in cold weather. Febuary i believe. For a cold installation, you must hand seal the roof. The sealant is asphalt and does not activate in cold weather. When it is cold and the shingles are not sealed, wind gets under the shingles along with dust. If this happens, the roof will not seal. think of a piece of tape that has dirt on it. Also, if you had felt AND FLASHING blown off, then i suspect you had more wind than you believe.
 
#10 ·
Sorry Atlas Shingles




I have had trouble with Atlas Pinnacle I shingles. They lasted about 10 years and now I am having to have my roof replaced. The gravel came off of them and wound up in my drain. Atlas is very slick. They send out forms that require a science project on your part to fill out. They seem to put all the burden of proof on the buyer even though they know they have a defective product. They want to know all about the felt. They want to know who your supplier was and all kinds of things that a normal homeowner would not know. They want you to fill out two pages of forms, send them 15 or so prints, two shingles, and then they will decide whether or not you have a legitimate complaint. They set the buyer up for failure. I believe there should be a class action suit. I am afraid, however, that this site is somehow obligated to Atlas.

M. Johnson
 
#112 ·
Re: Sorry Atlas Shingles

:vs_cool:
I have had trouble with Atlas Pinnacle I shingles. They lasted about 10 years and now I am having to have my roof replaced. The gravel came off of them and wound up in my drain. Atlas is very slick. They send out forms that require a science project on your part to fill out. They seem to put all the burden of proof on the buyer even though they know they have a defective product. They want to know all about the felt. They want to know who your supplier was and all kinds of things that a normal homeowner would not know. They want you to fill out two pages of forms, send them 15 or so prints, two shingles, and then they will decide whether or not you have a legitimate complaint. They set the buyer up for failure. I believe there should be a class action suit. I am afraid, however, that this site is somehow obligated to Atlas.

M. Johnson
 
#11 ·
under obligation,I don`t think so,we don`t know where that guy (atlasquality)popped up from,all shingles require proper installation for a valid warranty,the receptionist didn`t have a clue,no shingles are to be nailed in the tar line as that interferes with the seal,there is also a white/blue? nailing line on the shingle where it is double thick,this is where they should be nailed,oftentimes this is the difference between a good job and a bad one,if you nail higher,no mfgr will cover you against wind damage---thin cheap,loss of granules,these things I do agree with,and in those areas you should have a valid warranty claim---high nailing in the tar line,sue the contractor for reparations---you will probably notice older homes without tarlines in the same areas that don`t blow off because they were nailed correctly,which is generally about 1/4 to 1/2" above the shingle exposure---one of the big reasons to vet your contractor properly,even using quality materials doesn`t mean you will get a quality job,,,no material mfgr will warrant a poor installation that is not up to their minimum standards--good luck
 
#12 ·
There has only been one poster, who happened to be a rep from Atlas, who claimed that the Atlas Shingles were a superior product.

Personally, I have never used them due to their reputation, plus, a long time ago when they were supposedly available from one of my suppliers, the wait time for them to come in was about a month, so that nixed any notion of using them for any projects I had.

By the way, all of the shingle manufacturers have a similar process to validate the warranty, or I should state, to find reasons to usually void the warranty.

Industry studies state that over 90% of all shingle roof installations are inadequately ventilated, which indicates that only 1 out of 10 jobs is being done to "Minimum" specifications.

Contractors like TRG and myself, plus several other conscientious posters, are in the minority, because we not only know what we are doing, but actually do it when it is time to specify the job correctly and follow through by doing the installations correctly.

Ed
 
#14 ·
There is a difference between adequate ventilation for energy conservation and adequate ventilation for shingle life. There is currently a wave of conservation measures and statements about adequate ventilation relative to heat in the attic and energy use. Probably no home was designed for optimum ventilation for those purposes.

The question is in a technical sense what is adequate ventilation for shingle life. Who has specified the temperature relationship to life of a shingle? I would think that a shingle should last for the manufacturer's warranty (at least more than 10 years like my Atlas Pinnacle I 30 year did not) without any ventilation. Does the manufacturer have a detailed heat transfer specification for life of their shingles?

Let's not get adequate ventilation for energy conservation mixed in with adequate ventilation for shingle life otherwise Atlas, who has manufactured bad shingles. will get away with their defect.

M. Johnson
 
#15 ·
I also read that roof orientation and choice of colour of shingles had more of an effect on shingle longevity that venting or non-venting the roof. :huh:
 
#16 ·
I have a study that shows the correlation between asphalt deterioration and underside temperature variations.

I believe it was a reference by William Rose in a technical paper, which showed a reduction of 25% for a set degree amount of temperature increase and would obviously infer that additional temperature increases would likely further increase the asphalt degradation.

Ed
 
#17 ·
Ah-ha that's where I read it, in one of your posts, Ed, from last year!
 
#18 ·
Here is my point. If someone is going to supply a warranty that has anything to do with environmental conditions then they need to supply enviromental limits with detailed definition of the conditions. It means nothing in the engineering world or the law to state "inadequate ventilation" or "studies show". These are ambiguous statements. If the detailed enviromental conditions are not stated then the warranty is understood to hold for all natural conditions except "acts of God". So far I have seen no such technical description that goes along with the shingle warranty. I have heard a lot of ambiguous statements.

M. Johnson
Texas
 
#117 ·
The manufacturers, in their warranty texts often refer to sources which may be referenced to find specifics. One which I like to cover with my clients is UL2218 Class 4.
That means nothing to anyone unfamiliar with UL impact resistance testing. It can mean a lot to your insurance company. Copies of the complete warranty, in all its legalistic glory, can be accessed on the shingle manufacturers' website. Make sure you have plenty of ink and paper.
 
#20 ·
you`re roof was unvented,in the past 10 years "all" mfgr`s state necessity for balanced ventilation between the soffits and ridge of a home,surely one of your higher costing bids pointed this out,and was ignored in favor of the cheaper bid which you felt was for the same thing,you can still point blame at your contractor,but you have certainly given the shingle company the out they required-I would recommend you get hold of a bundle of ATLAS shingles ,and read what they have written,whether on the exterior,or the interior of the wrapper,my experience is that most companies state their warranties,and disclaimers there for the world to see--Best of luck
 
#22 ·
There were no "cheaper" bids. My home was custom built by a builder who builds multi-million dollar homes, and still does. I was not asked. It was a given the roofer knew what he was doing. Apparently the only mistake made were the shingles. I guess when it comes to roofers the prospective home owner should intervene and make certain Atlas shingles are not used. According to the arbitrary and ambiguous statements made by roofers of "adequate" my home was "adequately" ventilated. If there were shortcomings, and I do not believe there were warranty voiding shortcomings (whatever those are), it was a consequence of the roofing company's selection of shingles.

I have seen a lot of handwaving and heard a lot of ambiguous talk which does not translate into technical specifications. When one sells an aerospace product to the government and warranties it for 30 years the environmental conditions are stated. The aerospace company does not state to the government this product will last 30 years if you treat it "adequately". One would be laughed out of the business for such a statement. Handwaving does not go very for in engineering and science. If one is not going to define the conditions technically then one must warranty for all conditions short of acts of God.

Apparently, when it comes to roofing and materials and the short-lived nature of the roofing business, everyone has a way out the back door except the homeowner.

M. Johnson
Texas
 
#23 · (Edited)
Your builder putting up those multi-million dollar homes may be the party to seek renumeration from.

They built the structure and they and the architectural/engineering firms should be responsible for knowing the product specifications and local codes for your materials to have been installed in such a way, so as to not void your warranty.

Here are 2 paragraphs from the Atlas website regarding warranty installation instruction so as to not null and void the warranty.

From this link: http://www.atlasroofing.com/pages/Installation-res-19.asp

"2.) ROOF DECK VENTILATION
Adequate ventilation under the roof deck must be provided to prevent harmful condensation in winter and heat build-up in summer. These conditions can cause: A.) Accelerated roof weathering; B.) Deck rot and attic fungus; C.) Shingle distortion/cracking due to deck movement; D.) Blisters. Atlas will not be responsible for damage to shingles as a result of inadequate ventilation.

Ventilation provisions must meet or exceed current FHA Minimum Property Standards and conform to all building codes and regulations.

To best ensure adequate ventilation and circulation of air, a combination of vents at ridge and eaves should be used. All roof structures, especially mansard and cathedral type ceilings, must have complete through ventilation from bottom to top.

FHA Minimum Property Standards require 1 square foot of net free attic vent area for every 150 feet of attic floor area; or one square foot per every 300 square feet, if vapor barrier is installed on the warm side of the ceiling, or at least one half the ventilation area is provided near the ridge.

3.) ROOF DECK
These instructions are for the application of shingles to nominal 1/2" thick American Plywood Association (APA) rated, code approved plywood, non-veneer decks or minimum 1" thick (nominal) wood decks. The plywood or non-veneer decks must comply with the specifications of the APA. The wood decking must be well seasoned, not over 6" (nominal) width, and fastened securely to each rafter. Do not use green, unseasoned sheathing or undried, recently stripped form lumber. Deck surface should be clean, bare and flat. PINNACLE® shingles must not be applied to any surface, other than roof deck types described.

Atlas honors its limited shingle warranty when using Atlas shingles with the Atlas CrossVent Nailable insulation. Atlas will not be responsible for the performance of its shingles if applied directly to decks composed of perlite board, plastic foam, fiberboard, gypsum plank, lightweight concrete, cementitious wood fiber, or similar materials or to any decks directly installed over insulation with the exception of CrossVent™ Nailable insulation.



Now, I do not know how high the tolerences and specifications are for aerospace engineered products, but I imagine that the specifications must be of the highest quality.

An asphalt manufactured product begins its degradation and decaying process the instant it comes out of the bundle wrapper and gets installed, exposing the product to the UV rays of the sun.

The most commonly accepted theory and best practices include following the specifications to provide the best environment for the product to withstand the test of time.

If your home was not ventilated, at least to the "Minimum" specifactions, how could you presume that the material would function properly.

I know you had no part in the building and specifying of either the materials or the contractor and his crew who installed them, but you need more proof that the ventilation meets the standards, than just a statement without any mathematically calculated proof to back up your hypothesis, with your statement:
"to the arbitrary and ambiguous statements made by roofers of "adequate" my home was "adequately" ventilated."

I am NOT trying to diminish the merits of your claimed material malfunction, but you do need to follow the instructions and determine, by the attic floor square footage dimensions, if your builder/roofer/architect/engineer provided you with a legitimate case to argue.

To not have the back up calculations would be akin to saying your car engine froze up after having the oil changed, but refusing to allow them to see if there were any oil in the crank case to verify the complaint.

What is the footprint area dimensions of your entire attic floor space?

How many and of what size soffit intake vents do you have installed for the intake ventilation?

How many in quantity, or how many lineal feet, of roof top exhaust ventilation products do you have installed?

Can you post a photo of all 4 sides elevation views from the ground for us to see?

After the dimensions and the required NFVA are determined, then a much more resonable answer can be provided.

Ed
 
#24 ·
One final aide to assist you in determining the ventilation requiremens is this short article from
http://www.coastalcontractor.net/cgi-bin/article.pl?id=28

Ed


Roof Ventilation by the Numbers
The standard roof ventilation requirement used in building codes and asphalt roofing manufacturers calls for 1 square foot of "net free ventilation area" for every 300 square feet of ceiling area (attic floor area) when vents are evenly divided — half of them high on the roof at the ridge, gable, or a high roof, and half low on the roof at the eaves. The alternative is to vent only with low (soffit) vents, by doubling the "net free vent area" to 1 square foot per 150 square feet of ceiling area.

All manufactured roof venting products (soffit vents, venting drip-edge, gable vents, roof vents, and ridge vents) are labeled for "net free vent area." In the case of soffit vent strips and ridge vents, this capacity is listed in square inches per linear foot. For fixed-sized units, the capacity is published for the entire unit. Often it's necessary to convert the square footage of vent area to the published net free vent area in inches to make sure you are meeting the requirement.

For example, a house with a 28-foot by 40-foot ceiling has an area of 1,120 square feet. With soffit vents only, you'd divide that area by 150 square feet to come up with the "net free vent area" in square feet (1,120 / 150 = 7.47 square feet). But because the net free vent area for most vents is listed in square inches, I find it easier to convert the calculated square foot vent area into square inches. There are 144 square inches in a square foot (12 inches x 12 inches), so I multiply 7.47 x 144 = 1,075.68 square inches of net free vent area. Using a strip vent product listed for 9 square inches per linear foot requires you to make only one simple division calculation: 1,075.68 / 9 = 119.5 linear feet of vent. — M.G.
 
#25 ·
Elvis (The Roofer) Has Left The Building

The combination supply house and roofer that did my house was bought out by another outfit and the new outfit does not take any responsibility for my job.

I will do my own calculations and see whether or not after 10 years my ventilation has abused those delicate, sun sensitive, 30 year, Atlas Pinnacle I shingles. Maybe I need to open up my evaporator in the attic to cool them down.

My recommendation to anyone who has a roof put on is to constantly monitor one's ceiling sheetrock and when one sees staining then one knows the warranty has run out and it is time for a new roof at one's own expense. That I believe is what a shingle, roofing company, or supply house warranty really means.

Bye For Good!

M. Johnson
Texas
 
#27 · (Edited)
The combination supply house and roofer that did my house was bought out by another outfit and the new outfit does not take any responsibility for my job.

I will do my own calculations and see whether or not after 10 years my ventilation has abused those delicate, sun sensitive, 30 year, Atlas Pinnacle I shingles. Maybe I need to open up my evaporator in the attic to cool them down.

My recommendation to anyone who has a roof put on is to constantly monitor one's ceiling sheetrock and when one sees staining then one knows the warranty has run out and it is time for a new roof at one's own expense. That I believe is what a shingle, roofing company, or supply house warranty really means.

Bye For Good!

M. Johnson
Texas
I feel bad that you are so bitter because someone, especially a contractor who builds multi-million dollar homes, did not remain in business long enough to assist you in your warranty woes.

I recall back in the early 90's, when I first realized the dramatic impact that proper ventilation had on the longevity of the newly installed shinges.

It was at a time when I was doing an estimate and measuring a roof. I thought that 2 of the neighbors roofs looked familiar that we had done, but I could not believe the total state of aging and disrepair to one of them, so I looked up their job files and disovered that the one that still looked brand new, had chosen to have us install our recommended ridge ventilation. The other one, which was 2 years newer, had not chosen that recomended option and their roof looked like it was over 10 years old already. (worse than that even)

Mind you, both roofs were in the same environment and on the same block with similarly built homes, and they both had the same brand and style of cheaper lightweight 3-tab shingles installed, which at that time, was the Johns Manville Weather Seals.

The 5 year old roof with the proper ventilation looked new still, whereas the 3 year old roof was prematurely aged. Was that all due to the lack of ventilation? I doubt it, but I will say, that it must have been a major contributing factor.

Since that time, rather than listing the proper upgrades for more efficient ventilation, I have automatically included it with the written specifications, so that more consumers could benefit for a longer period of time, although it has definitely cost me plenty of sales, because the majority of contractors will use cheaper and inferior ventilation products and claim they are all the same, I still believe providing a properly done job to the best of my knowledge and ability is the only course of action for me to take.

In your case, I wish that the builder would have upraded his fee from $500,000 to $500,300 dollars, or whatever the price was in retrospect, so that you could have been a satisfied client and not felt so abused by the manufacturers warranty requirements and proper specifications.

Also, for a token few more dollars per square of roofing materials, a more popular and reliable product could have been chosen as well.

I guess it is very hard times now in this economy, that even multi-million dollar home builders have been forced to go out of business. I know for a fact, that I can feel that builders pain.

Ed
 
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