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Old 10-01-2011, 07:35 PM   #16
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Possible water damage


Hey Mike!

Well, it sure seems like you're getting your monies worth out of your new ladder!! Thanks for posting the new pictures which shows things in a new perspective.

I'm really leaning towards the valley being the issue here. There is a lot of debris which is prohibiting the flow of water to channel into the gutter. Also looking into the gutter you can see some residue of cement that has flowed with the water at some point. You might also want to check that there are no clogs in the gutter, drop tube, downspout, elbows, etc. Doesn't seem like you've had a lot of rain or if you have, I don't think those spider webs would be there. They would have washed away with the flow of water.

So, I am of the opinion that your problem is somewhere within the valley and it's clogged with construction debris, debris from cutting tiles, plastering of the chimney, could be the lip on the sides of the valley metal is compressed and water is flowing onto the roof under the tiles instead of the channel acting as a diverter for the water to flow down the valley and into the gutter. You also need to go one step further and check the area where the water has been saturating your cement and check the condition of your sheathing and membrane. You mentioned that it's been getting wet for a period of time.

Is this a new construction house? Is your roof under warranty? If so, get those guys out there and point out your broken ridge tile and that last tile that you can see daylight through..that is not quality workmanship. I don't see how an Inspector would allow that..(unless they inspect from their car) Also, dealing with the valley and removing 3 or 4 tiles from either side and cleaning the valley and reinstalling the tiles might best be left for someone with experience (no offense meant!!) At least you have knowledge and know what to be aware of. While they're up there wouldn't hurt to check the area around the chimney and any other suspicious areas you've noticed with your new ladder!!

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Old 10-01-2011, 08:41 PM   #17
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Possible water damage


Horsey, I agree with you. Look closely at the red arrows below. They point to discolored paint that was most likely a river of water during rain showers. The river is directly under the valley.....


The house is 10 years old. If the warranty is expired, can I sue the builders to pay for a new valley?

Luckily for me, I live near Fresno, so we rarely get rain. Maybe that's why the roof builders were so lazy.

I am surprised that no one ever invented a waterproof liner that goes OVER existing tiles to prevent leaks for cheapskates like me.

Any idea how much a roofer would charge to fix my roof?

Last edited by mike932; 10-01-2011 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:30 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by mike932 View Post
Horsey, I agree with you. Look closely at the red arrows below. They point to discolored paint that was most likely a river of water during rain showers. The river is directly under the valley.....


The house is 10 years old. If the warranty is expired, can I sue the builders to pay for a new valley?

Luckily for me, I live near Fresno, so we rarely get rain. Maybe that's why the roof builders were so lazy.

I am surprised that no one ever invented a waterproof liner that goes OVER existing tiles to prevent leaks for cheapskates like me.

I would look over your homeowner documents especially if you are the first owner of the house. Warranties can vary but should be longer than 10 years. Of course the tile manufacturers warranty will be longer but your issue is not with the failure of tile but the roof underneath. Either call the builder or like I said, see if you have a copy of the contract from the roofing company. If you aren't the original owner, sometimes the warranties are not transferrable. If an improper roof was installed and you want to seek legal recourse you're probably going to have to hire an inspector, trusted Roofing Contractor or Roof Consultant to do a survey of the roof. You might also look for the permit for additional information. In my area there are four inspections that are done with a tile roof...a tin cap inspection for dry-in, a mop-in and then an in progress as tile is being installed and then the final...not sure about your area.

"I am surprised that no one ever invented a waterproof liner that goes OVER existing tiles to prevent leaks for cheapskates like me."


I find your statement above very cute and funny and the answer is.......they do...they're called tarps...pretty blue ones in fact!! At one time all you could see after we had a series of hurricanes down here four or so years ago was a gazillion roofs covered in blue and the odd green ones here and there. Unfortunately, they weren't very attractive with the bags of sand holding them down and having to be readjusted after winds and/or rain!! Come to think of it...there are still some up there believe it or not.

Take care.

I just wanted to add that don't let anyone talk you into sealing your roof tile...that is a no-no..there are water channels on the left side of every tile which need to be left open.

Also, you mention you hardly get any rain. Are the stained areas wet or even damp or are they "just" stains. If wet or still damp, you really need to have someone look at it and get it repaired. Something could really be festering under there. Don't be a "cheapstake" when it comes to having a roof over your families head and protecting your personal belongings!!

Last edited by Horseygirl; 10-01-2011 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 10-02-2011, 07:14 PM   #19
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I found the leak. There is a cracked tile. As soon I sprayed water into the crack, water leaked down to the same area as always. Note the triangle-shaped crack.....



Also, the water made the flashing visible. There is a metal W-flashing in the valley.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:05 AM   #20
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Congratulations!! Good detective work!!

So you now know the source of the intrusion but have to figure out why the valley is not doing its' job diverting to the gutter. Could be the valleys end is crushed allowing the water to flow over or under creating your "river" of wet. Or the flashing on the valley could have delaminated creating a void and allowing the water to seep into the other area. It's not unusual for water to get under the tile but that's why the membrane is there. Should also be some weep holes along the eaveline for drainage too.

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Old 10-03-2011, 02:53 PM   #21
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The roof should be weathertight, even with all the tiles removed. You will need to remove a few to see what the problem is.
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:33 PM   #22
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Horsey, I am going to temporarily duct tape the cracked tile to see if that stops the leak.

Last edited by mike932; 10-03-2011 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:57 PM   #23
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The roof should be weathertight, even with all the tiles removed. You will need to remove a few to see what the problem is.
So what you're saying is that even with the cracked tile, all water should make it to the gutter, right?
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:06 PM   #24
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So what you're saying is that even with the cracked tile, all water should make it to the gutter, right?
It should do if the roof has been done properly.
I've been doing a slate roof on my extension which has not leaked since I put the breather membrane and battens on, even without the slates. You should have something similar on your roof.
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Old 10-03-2011, 06:54 PM   #25
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Horsey, I am going to temporarily duct tape the cracked tile to see if that stops the leak.
No, that is not the solution to your problem. Your problem is under the tile. That may or may not stop the water from going behind the tile. You don't need a duct tape band-aid. You need to find out why the water is penetrating through the membrane causing your "river". Is it the valley metal? Is it the paper under the tile? You're going to have to take up tiles and get to the root of the problem. Besides if that "river" has been there you should want to see what the condition is under the tile and why the water is backing up and the damage it may have caused, like do you have rotten wood, is mildew forming?

Like I said before, your tile is decorative and not the means to keep your roof watertight. Even though you have that hole, doesn't mean you should have the issue you're having. What Stuart has said is true. I have clients who are waiting for their tile to come in and be loaded..sometimes for 30 days or so. Their roof is usually a modified or 90#. That is "thee roof" and should be watertight. If it does leak, usually everyone is "happy" that a problem was found before the tile was installed rather than after. Punctures can happen during installation too. Maybe that's what happened.

Bottom line, something is wrong under your tile and duct tape, which probably won't even stick for that long to the tile is not going to prevent another "river" from flowing. The fact that you found the source of entry helps to determine where you need to look for the actual problem.
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:29 PM   #26
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Thanks Horsey. What's the minimum a roofer would charge to fix this?
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:18 PM   #27
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Sorry to jump into this conversation, but, man, that valley is a disaster in my opinion...........tiles butted together with large gaps between them is just asking for trouble. It's almost as if they are relying on the underlayment as a rain shield rather than the roof tiles. Shameless construction.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:12 AM   #28
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Thanks Horsey. What's the minimum a roofer would charge to fix this?
Hard to say not knowing the scope of work that needs to be done other than removing tiles, finding the source of the leak, repairing and then replacing tiles. Don't forget to show the broken ridge tile and the one that is floating in mid air and any other funky areas observed.

Did you check to see if the roof is still under warranty? Hopefully the company that did this will have to make good on it. If not, then you'll have to call some Contractors and get a price.
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:04 AM   #29
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The only part of the warranty that is still active is the structural warranty, which covers damage that could lead to the house collapsing.
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:37 PM   #30
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I found another broken tile and removed it. There is exposed plywood and some felt. I now think it is the cause of the leak, because the felt is so weathered. I think the reason there was a leak when I sprayed water in the valley is that the hose created much more pressure than rainfall.


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