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Old 10-06-2011, 08:24 PM   #1
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Pay the guy? Hold back? Grace I&WS applied incorrectly.


I have a shed dormer, about 2.5 square, that is sloped 3/12 with 1x10 decking. The contractor agreed to install Grace on this portion of the roof in the contract. He has about 2/3's of the Grace down, and about half the shingles down at this point.

I went up to check out the work this evening, and it seems like he hasn't properly prepared the surface (see * below): There's still tar and felt on some areas of the deck that need to have Grace applied, and I can see the outline of sections of tar paper through the Grace in areas that the Grace has been applied but not shingled. There are also a lot of plastic-washered staples and roofing nails that protrude from the surface of the deck.

I payed for a premium product because the roof has had ice dams in the past. I didn't haggle with this guy over his price, and I even agreed to cover extra material cost because his said that he mis-estimated the square footage (to the tune of 3 squares). What should I do now? Ask him to redo?Pay him full? Hold back, and, if so, how much?

*Grace installation guide says "Remove dust, dirt, loose nails, and old
roofing materials. Protrusions from the deck area must be removed." And later "Do not install Grace underlayments directly on old roof coverings."

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Old 10-06-2011, 08:40 PM   #2
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Pay the guy? Hold back? Grace I&WS applied incorrectly.


He should pull up whatever shingles necessary and redo the ice an water. By your reasoning he has less than 2 sq of shingles down.

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Old 10-06-2011, 08:58 PM   #3
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Pay the guy? Hold back? Grace I&WS applied incorrectly.


I'm assuming that he can't reuse the Grace, correct? What about the shingles?
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Old 10-06-2011, 09:17 PM   #4
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Pay the guy? Hold back? Grace I&WS applied incorrectly.


The shingles and the Grace cannot be reused. But as it was installed, it is pretty much useless.
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Old 10-07-2011, 12:03 AM   #5
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Pay the guy? Hold back? Grace I&WS applied incorrectly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sixeightten View Post
The shingles and the Grace cannot be reused. But as it was installed, it is pretty much useless.
+1

It belongs in the dumpster in this capacity.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:53 AM   #6
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Pay the guy? Hold back? Grace I&WS applied incorrectly.


I agree with six and windows, don't pay up until he re-roofs it properly.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:05 AM   #7
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Pay the guy? Hold back? Grace I&WS applied incorrectly.


As far as going over felt, I really don't see an issue with that. It won't hinder the I&W. The cap staples may be an issue, but if that's the case, then wouldn't "H" clips cause an issue as well? There are some new plastic H clips that you can actually see through some cheaper shingles (BP, IKO).
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:28 AM   #8
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Pay the guy? Hold back? Grace I&WS applied incorrectly.


It seems to me that Grace is very clear in their documentation that the IWS should be applied directly to the deck. I was up again this morning to look again, and the Grace is already showing stress (a dark black color instead of the dark grey) where its apparently (by shape and feel) been applied over a nail head.

There's another section where they went over a clump of shingles and flashing (old 1 1/2" vent penetration) and the shingled surface is humped, raised up 1/2"; I haven't checked from the attic, yet, but I'm pretty sure they left the hole that's in the middle.
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:14 AM   #9
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Pay the guy? Hold back? Grace I&WS applied incorrectly.


I say, if you can go up there and tear the grace off, then don't pay him till it's re-done.

If it is stuck to the 1x decking and it's above freezing, I doubt it is coming off.

There are houses here with 3-4 layers of I&W on them because they were replaced after storms.

I understand that this particular roof is critical to you and should have been done according to the scope in the contract. I just doubt it will come off.
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:26 AM   #10
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Pay the guy? Hold back? Grace I&WS applied incorrectly.


MJW,

So if it doesn't come off . . . ? Pull the shingles, pound the nails down (that is, the small tents in the IWS), and then reapply new IWS and shingles?
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:48 PM   #11
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Pay the guy? Hold back? Grace I&WS applied incorrectly.


Well, I asked him to fix the problem when he first showed up (at ~10am) this morning. He immediately refused and started packing up. He was conscientious enough (and/or understands liability enough) to clean up (most) of the trash and quickly cover the exposed parts of the roof with tar paper. Of course, now I need a roof in a hurry, along with step flashing, chimney flashing, and a couple of vents.

He wanted me to pay his crew upfront. I refused, saying that I have no way of knowing what it's going to cost to finish the job. I've already paid the supply company ~$2k for materials, and it seems that at least two squares of Grace and shingles will have to be going in the trash.

Did I do this right? Know a good roofer around Dayton, OH?
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:23 PM   #12
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Pay the guy? Hold back? Grace I&WS applied incorrectly.


Why are you paying the supply company? I thought you hired a Contractor. Seems like you hired labor....
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:00 PM   #13
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Pay the guy? Hold back? Grace I&WS applied incorrectly.


Reading a couple other threads a few weeks ago when I started looking for a roof, it seemed fairly typical for contractors to ask for money upfront for material, with the safer way of doing things as paying the supply company directly. The contract is written a deposit, made payable to the supply company, and a final amount due after completion. And there's a warranty against leaks, etc., etc.

A lot of contractors don't seem to want to do business without some monetary commitment from the homeowner.

It also seemed like a way to make sure the supply company got paid and that I didn't end up with a lien against my house. I didn't pay the dumpster guy directly, but I did check with him to make sure that he got paid.

Last edited by mystryda; 10-07-2011 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:53 PM   #14
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Pay the guy? Hold back? Grace I&WS applied incorrectly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mystryda
Reading a couple other threads a few weeks ago when I started looking for a roof, it seemed fairly typical for contractors to ask for money upfront for material, with the safer way of doing things as paying the supply company directly. The contract is written a deposit, made payable to the supply company, and a final amount due after completion. And there's a warranty against leaks, etc., etc.

A lot of contractors don't seem to want to do business without some monetary commitment from the homeowner.

It also seemed like a way to make sure the supply company got paid and that I didn't end up with a lien against my house. I didn't pay the dumpster guy directly, but I did check with him to make sure that he got paid.
That's the first sign you shouldn't have hired this roofer. If you can't establish a good credit history with a supply company, there's usually a reason for it.

We don't accept any money up front. The homeowner doesn't deal at all with the supplier. I supply notice of lien rights immediately upon contract signing and my supply company sends out one as soon as materials are ordered. If I did accept a downpayment, that money would go towards the labor instead of the materials.

I have had one person try to stiff me. My payment terms are strict. You know how you drive through McDonalds and pay right away? I expect the same. This person called the supply company offering to pay for materials in which they said the materials will be paid in full once I get paid in full.

I am surprised legitimate guys conduct business the way you did with yours. I hope it all works out for you.

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