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Old 04-05-2012, 08:17 AM   #1
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Open Valley - Starter Strip


Hello from Canada. I am re-roofing the original roof on my house that was installed 15 years ago. Whoever the contractor was was either lazy or didn't give a crap. No ice/water under any valleys or along the eaves, no drip edge or over hang of shingles, no vents etc.

I have been involved in laying a couple roofs over the years that have turned out great but this is my first time dealing with valleys.

ANyways I've got two questions. I noticed that the current open valleys have a starter strip. This is not an " open california". Is this normal practice? I was under the impression this was not required on open valleys. Here is a pic of my current valleys.




Second question

What are your thoughts on the over hang of these small valley as in are they done properly? Things i should pay attention to when re-installng?I can find no info on valleys w/overhangs..maybe its simpler than I'm making it.




You can see the edge of a starter strip in the bottom left edge of the valley below.



Thanks in advance.


Last edited by Ciskman; 04-05-2012 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:51 AM   #2
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Open Valley - Starter Strip


Open metal valleys usually has 3 foot wide ice and water shield, 20" wide metal, and shingles that overlap the metal by 5" on each side. The top corners of the shingles are clipped so water will be directed back into the valley. Using a starter strip isn't common practice.

To me, the overhang is good because it keeps water away from the fascia. That transition would be difficult to waterproof correctly if you shortened the overhang.

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Old 04-05-2012, 12:26 PM   #3
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Open Valley - Starter Strip


I would check the venting on that roof as well.

No since in putting a new shingle up there if it is going to fail as quickly.
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:56 PM   #4
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Open Valley - Starter Strip


Thanks tpo both of you. Vents are bought...another thing I've never had to deal with before. Seems simple enough.
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Old 04-05-2012, 08:03 PM   #5
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Open Valley - Starter Strip


From those pictures the only thing I see wrong is your roof is shot. Workmanship doesn't look sloppy at all compared to some crap we see every day.
Ice/water has only been common for the last 15 or 20 years. Lack of it does not mean lazy or sloppy work.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:02 PM   #6
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Open Valley - Starter Strip


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From those pictures the only thing I see wrong is your roof is shot. Workmanship doesn't look sloppy at all compared to some crap we see every day.
Ice/water has only been common for the last 15 or 20 years. Lack of it does not mean lazy or sloppy work.
Fair enough, I accept that. Maybe I was a little quick on the trigger. How long has drip edge been around? Im not being sarcastic or anything...I honestly don't know.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:16 PM   #7
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Open Valley - Starter Strip


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Fair enough, I accept that. Maybe I was a little quick on the trigger. How long has drip edge been around? Im not being sarcastic or anything...I honestly don't know.
That is a different story. I've always been one to insist on edge metal on all of my roofs. However for some reason it is quite common to see roofs without it. Never has made sense to me, especially with engineered fascia and such.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:07 AM   #8
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Open Valley - Starter Strip


I don't think it's a continous starter shingle up the valley. What it looks like to me is a tab installed on the bottom corner to cover up what would have been exposed metal. When I did open valley metal did this on all roofs.

Another thing to do on the rakes under the valley is to tuck your ice and water shield up as far as it will go which typicaly requires pulling some fasteners out of the valley framing. If the framers ran a 1by all the way down you can't do much for getting anything under it.

On new construction the first thing I'd do is go up on the roof and lift up all the bottom of the valleys were a roof was below and pull fasteners. My thoughts were one day a framer would see this and figure it out. Only one crew caught on!

It's also wise to install a couple shingle tins on the freeze board under the fascia on these small rakes. We've done thousands and thousands of dollars in rot repairs due to the lack of one or two 5 cent shingle tins!

No venting is odd, you basicly have a hot roof, not good. Your soffits are vented right?

Like others have said the quality of install isn't too bad from the pics.

Yes, we tear offs roofs 15-20 years old with no ice and water shield. If it was a code back then it wasn't enforced.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:53 AM   #9
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Open Valley - Starter Strip


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Originally Posted by dougger222 View Post
I don't think it's a continous starter shingle up the valley. What it looks like to me is a tab installed on the bottom corner to cover up what would have been exposed metal. When I did open valley metal did this on all roofs.

Another thing to do on the rakes under the valley is to tuck your ice and water shield up as far as it will go which typicaly requires pulling some fasteners out of the valley framing. If the framers ran a 1by all the way down you can't do much for getting anything under it.

On new construction the first thing I'd do is go up on the roof and lift up all the bottom of the valleys were a roof was below and pull fasteners. My thoughts were one day a framer would see this and figure it out. Only one crew caught on!

It's also wise to install a couple shingle tins on the freeze board under the fascia on these small rakes. We've done thousands and thousands of dollars in rot repairs due to the lack of one or two 5 cent shingle tins!

No venting is odd, you basicly have a hot roof, not good. Your soffits are vented right?

Like others have said the quality of install isn't too bad from the pics.

Yes, we tear offs roofs 15-20 years old with no ice and water shield. If it was a code back then it wasn't enforced.
Thanks for the good advice. I ripped the shigles off the back of the garage yesterday and the starter strip does indeed go to the top..no big deal.

Yes my sofits are vented.

The only thing Im trying to connect the dots on is where exactly you are referencing to place the shigle tins...mind you I am still on my first coffee
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:26 PM   #10
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Open Valley - Starter Strip


Can't say I've ever seen starters up a valley before, we've done several hundred tear offs...

As far as the shingle tin placement.

These are used only when you run your shingles up under a overhang were a valley is (other than a tin course). Before you lay your bleeder on the eave place a shingle tin between the fascia metal and fascia board so it goes down about 3-5 inches. This will allow water running down the valley to stay away from getting under your overhang or soffit area.

It's hard to explain but I don't have any pics of this detail.

If you get ice and water and shingles up a ways under the overhang that works good too. A tin is just a good way to direct water flow.
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:42 PM   #11
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Open Valley - Starter Strip


We normally run starters up the valley to create a straight line
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:52 PM   #12
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Open Valley - Starter Strip


I do metal roofing so i do not have any comp background. One thing i see in his pics brings up a question i would like to ask. I have seen "w" type valleys on comp, but i have never seen what looks like flat stock used as a valley like in the OPs pics. Is the valley used in the OPs pics acceptable ?

I would have assumed a W type valley was needed to prevent water from flowing down the comp on one roof plane, entering the valley and then being forced under the comp on the opposing roof pitch. Even with I&W in the valleys would that not still be frowned upon ? or does the width of the metal prevent any chance of water getting forced beyond the valley metal.

Last edited by AndyWRS; 04-08-2012 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougger222 View Post
Can't say I've ever seen starters up a valley before, we've done several hundred tear offs...

As far as the shingle tin placement.

These are used only when you run your shingles up under a overhang were a valley is (other than a tin course). Before you lay your bleeder on the eave place a shingle tin between the fascia metal and fascia board so it goes down about 3-5 inches. This will allow water running down the valley to stay away from getting under your overhang or soffit area.

It's hard to explain but I don't have any pics of this detail.

If you get ice and water and shingles up a ways under the overhang that works good too. A tin is just a good way to direct water flow.
Great thank-you.We managed to slide shingles underneath the top soffit/fascia area all the way to the wall.

I have a questions though. I had 4 guys working on the roof. The two valleys with the overhangs were placed at the same time. The guys who placed one of them cut the valley flush with the top of the facia metal/board were the eaves ends. The garage is completly done and we have not started on the main roof yet. This leaves me with an option to either replace the valley with a new one(im starting to count pennies though) or I could trim some metal of the excess valley that is not in use and slide it under to form an overhang. Thoughts?

I hope I am painting a clear picture here. Its raining out so I can't grab a picture right now.

Thanks again.

Last edited by Ciskman; 04-09-2012 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:06 PM   #14
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Open Valley - Starter Strip


Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyWRS View Post
I do metal roofing so i do not have any comp background. One thing i see in his pics brings up a question i would like to ask. I have seen "w" type valleys on comp, but i have never seen what looks like flat stock used as a valley like in the OPs pics. Is the valley used in the OPs pics acceptable ?

I would have assumed a W type valley was needed to prevent water from flowing down the comp on one roof plane, entering the valley and then being forced under the comp on the opposing roof pitch. Even with I&W in the valleys would that not still be frowned upon ? or does the width of the metal prevent any chance of water getting forced beyond the valley metal.

W valleys are placed on the new roof.

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