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Old 05-28-2009, 12:52 PM   #1
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Old felt left on


I have been roofing for 20 years and my dad has had his own roofing company for 40. He taught me that if the old felt stays intact when you take it off with a tear-off bar, that you could roof over it. We have never had any complaints. Our roofs are high quality.
I just did a roof for a man. We always have the homeowner pay for the materials when they are delivered, but since this was just a small townhome, we went ahead and paid for the materials at roofcenter, while we were there.
When we tore off the old shingles, the old felt stayed intact. We applied Landmark 30 yr architectual shingles and it looked beautiful.
Now he refuses to pay, and there was nothing in the contract about felt. What do you think?

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Old 05-28-2009, 03:37 PM   #2
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Old felt left on


Depends on codes and inspections. Activate a lein. Materials and labor have to be paid. Obviously, I am not a lawyer, but if work is performed, it is to be paid for unless there is a discrepancy that can be mended.

It's really pointless, but from now on, give the people some new felt, eh.........

Where we are pictures of the sheathing and I&W are all that is required, but I take pics of everything because as you can see here, some homeowners are very devious sometimes.

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Old 05-30-2009, 06:19 AM   #3
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Old felt left on


Old ways are not always the best with new shingles.
Some people are not aware that some fiberglass shingles are manufactured with a porous fiberglass matte, these less expensive shingles start to weep water(have seen it personally) Old shingles had a solid paper core therefore felt was not required AT ALL!
I am not going to start naming shingles but there was a good reason they made felt manditory with some products.
The old ways of your father may not even apply today.
Follow the manufacturers instructions.
Dale Chomechko
DC Roofing Inc
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Old 05-30-2009, 08:00 AM   #4
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Old felt left on


That is a very outrageous claim Dale....sure you want to stick with that one?

I believe your theory on felt dripping, but not the shingles. Are you sure you have the story straight?
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:38 AM   #5
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Old felt left on


Any proper reroof has new underlayment. For good deck inspection the old underlayment needs to be removed. I don't know if withholding payment is the proper think to do but I can understand the HO being upset. The felt acts as a secondary barrier should the water ever get past the shingles, and it does and can. It is not a question of "if," but a question of "when." Not to mention that in any roofing job this is included in the cost, because how could you possibly know it would stay intact until you were done ripping off. So now you have added cost that was never used and to the HO it appears you are charging for work and material that you are not in fact doing.
Just because your dad has been doing it 100 years doesn't make it right. I don't know of any shingle manual, construction book, or shingle company that advocates not removing and replacing the shingle underlayment. Do you? Sounds like a scheme to make extra money off of a job.
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Old 05-30-2009, 06:26 PM   #6
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Old felt left on


I would never accept re-roofing without new felt
One of the least expensive things to replace & you leave it
How do you tell what the roof decking is like without removing the felt?
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:06 PM   #7
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Old felt left on


Quote:
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How do you tell what the roof decking is like without removing the felt?
Not saying you are wrong Dave, but you can tell by uh...umm....being a Pro. J/K
When you pull the nails or when you install new paper you can tell. When inspecting sheathing(which is a real inspection here on reroofs) it's real hard to see the staples in the sheathing anyhow. You can tell by walking on the roof and hammering on it.
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:11 PM   #8
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Old felt left on


Old felt should NEVER be left on
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Old felt should NEVER be left on
Tell us why?
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:14 PM   #10
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Old felt left on


Can you remove I&W? No you can't. I wonder how that is inspected? Hmmmm....... That is the bottom 6 feet or more of the roof. Probably an area that should be checked, right? How do we do that?
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:07 PM   #11
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Old felt left on


I gotta agree with MJW people.It's easy to tell.I personally leave it on (except for where the ice and water shield goes) and put new 15# felt on provided its not all wrinkled.
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
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That is a very outrageous claim Dale....sure you want to stick with that one?

I believe your theory on felt dripping, but not the shingles. Are you sure you have the story straight?
I am not going to argue with myself (I saw it)
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:43 AM   #13
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Old felt left on


Dale is correct. I've pulled too many lately that looked perfectly normal, and water was penetrating the shingles everywhere. No hole in the shngles either. As the felt deteriorated, the water made it into the homes. One rep told me that the new shingles would leak without felt. That's not saying much for one of the largest shingle companies around.
Lot of roofs going south in 4-8 years lately.
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Old 06-02-2009, 06:51 AM   #14
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Old felt left on


Must still be using GAF?
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Old 06-02-2009, 09:34 PM   #15
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Old felt left on


No, actually Gaf was not the culprit.
Not that I would have ever bought Gaf(huge granule loss)
Elk was my shingle of choice & now that they are owned by Gaf & we get the same Elk shingle out of the same plant(Shafter)I continue to put on about 60% Timberline/Prestique
Certainteed (about 30%)entered or market about 2 years ago & they make very good products. But if you check some of there installation instructions, your used felt would void a warranty.
The other 10% we do is synthetic slates & cedar & used felt woul not fly with them either.
For the sake of $250 why would I try to save it?
Dale Chomechko
DC Roofing

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