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Old 08-30-2007, 03:35 PM   #46
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I looked up the install instructions for your shingles. They are very forgiving as far as nail placement goes.

The outer nails should be within 1/2" and 2 1/2" of the sides The inside nails should be within 11 5/8" and 14 5/8" for the sides. That is a 3 inch forgiveness on the inside nails and two inches on the outer nails. I really don't think you need a tape measure for that. This is with a 4 nail pattern. If you went 6 nails, it would be a little different. Nevertheless, you wouldn't need a tape measure. I think anybody could eyeball that.

Here are how your offsets would have went. I believe the sell metric size in your area.

-First course should have been a full shingle at the rake
-Second course he should have trimmed off 6" off the first shingle at the rake
-third course trim 11"
-forth course triim 17"
-repeat (starting with full shingle)

I'm not saying it would line up perfectly without nails lining up with side laps. I really didn't do the math, but it worked with my OC shingles (they provided different number). The only time nails line up was when I deviated from the suggested offsets.

With GAF specs, I could nail every shingle within their specs. OC wanted it at 1" from the corners and 13" from the corners. They didn't really provide a tolerance. I know some nails drifted +/- 1 inch.

Last edited by Malcolm; 08-30-2007 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 08-30-2007, 03:41 PM   #47
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I'm sorry to hear about your troubles doc, but you know more than the average homeowner knows if that is any consolation. I never told my neighbor that his shingles were nailed on the overlap. I didn't want to upset him or stir up any trouble. As far as he is concerned, he has a professionally done roof. Sometimes it sucks to be so informed. At this point, it is either legal recourse or dabbing sealant on those nail heads. I would at least do that. It would be better than leaving them exposed. Water travels down the side laps. If I lived in your area, I would come down and help you fix it one day.
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Old 08-30-2007, 05:29 PM   #48
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Old 08-30-2007, 05:46 PM   #49
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Looks like the nail can be within the range of 5 3/4 and 6 1/4 in from from the bottom of the shingle. GAF is very forgiving. It was a PITA to install mine. Next time I might look into GAF more closely.
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Old 08-30-2007, 05:50 PM   #50
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Well, now that I think about it those are the same guide lines as OC. The nail line is placed at 6 1/8 inch. If you nailed above 6 1/4 you were in the overlap. If you nailed it at 5 3/4 inch the bottom of the nail head would show. I can see why companies like Malarkey, OC, and GAF are giving the alternative of nailing high.
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Old 08-30-2007, 05:52 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docfletcher View Post

That nail looks like it is nailed in the overlap. You can see how the bottom of the nail head looks like it is already tearing into the shingle. If wind storm hits, there will be no tensile strength (or very minimal).
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Old 08-30-2007, 05:58 PM   #52
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Malcolm, Thank you for your sage council. I appreciate the warm tone. I think you brought the first smile in two days. Other friends have told me not to pursue it with the roofer. Even if I won a judgment I may not ever see any money.
Best course would be as you suggest cover them with a sealant. The shingle butts are very close together so ultra violet most likely won't get to attack the sealant. I can go into attic during a rain and seek out leaks, attending to them as needed. Once again I wish to thank you and all those who have imparted their knowledge and experience in a effort to help me.

I was hesitant to being my sad experience to the board. Not easy to tell all Ive been a fool. Took a bit of courage yes, But in truth I was compelled to do so because if someone else could learn from my mistake then that would be a very good thing indeed. Thus making the board a better place.

The last photo shows a nail high, causing a depression around it where water will most certainly gravitate to. Also shows the corner of the shingle on top of the shingle to the right, thus it sits high.

Last edited by Docfletcher; 08-30-2007 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 08-30-2007, 06:09 PM   #53
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http://www.gaf.com/General/GafMain.asp?Silo=RES1&WS=GAF

Click on:

-Shingles styles and colors in the left hand panel
-Choose your state
-scroll down to the bottom until you get to timberline ultras
-click on "click here for product details"
-Scroll down and click

"For shingles made in Tampa and Mobile plants, NOT to be installed in Dade County, Fl"

Just click on it when you get to the page. It explains where the overlay area is. I sometimes have a hard time explaining things. Well, my old 3 tabs were nailed horribly. They just nailed it wherever. I don't even think they cared how many nails went into each shingle. Some of them had 3 nails per shingle and some had six. I know for a fact there are a lot worse jobs out there. You just have the luxury of having pro roofers that do it correctly inform you on proper procedure (ED and TRG). I have looked at a lot of new construction, reroofs, etc. while doing my research and they were all nailed a little high like yours. I can't imagine that all these huge subdivisions have substantial damage. I would do like you said. Maybe get some of that UV protected sealant and hand it to the roofer to seal those nails. Check it every year for leaks. In a month, you won't even be thinking about your roof. I don't think you have been had. A lot of people in my area would like a roof like yours believe it or not.

Last edited by Malcolm; 08-30-2007 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 08-30-2007, 06:28 PM   #54
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Roofer says he won't do it, unless I want to pay him. I understand now about the overlap. When nailed high there is nothing under the shingle to support it. So it easy for the nail to tear into the shingle. I the last photo you can't see it but the nail has tore into it.
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Old 08-30-2007, 06:30 PM   #55
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many nails are less than 1/2" from the butt.
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Old 08-30-2007, 06:38 PM   #56
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Quote:
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many nails are less than 1/2" from the butt.
Wow, you mean he nailed it right on the edge of the shingle. Was this guy fast? He seemed to let these nails fly.
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Old 08-30-2007, 07:23 PM   #57
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His crew of 2 were so fast I had to intervene. I told them slow down it's not a race. I'm telling you it's a real mess, what they did. I just want it to go away.

Last edited by Docfletcher; 08-30-2007 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:20 PM   #58
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well I would think you`re gonna be suing for a lot more due to aggravation,call gaf,send them pictures showing where the shingles are nailed and ask them if they are gonna back his warranty on the roofing,when you get their answer you should have all the ammo you need for your lawsuit,go for the gusto!-going to bed long day tomorrow again-feel free to e-mail me doc if you want-it`s in my profile
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:28 PM   #59
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YOUM DO NOT PAY GOOD MONEY FOR CRAP,AND SAY OH WELL,THIS IS THE COMPLAXCENCY THAT MAKES THESE PROBLEMS EASIER FORR THESE GUYS AND WORSE FOR ED AND I,YOUM MEAN THIS GUY IS STILL GONNA SAY ,NEVER HAD A PROBLEM,STUFF IT UP THE NEXT GUY`S BUTT,AND YOU WILL ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN:"ALL IT TAKES FOR EVIL TO WIN ,IS FOR GOOD MEN TO SIT BACK AND DO NOTHING"
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:34 PM   #60
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QUOTE FROM GAF WARRANTY...GAF will not compensate you for damage to your shingles or roof from anything other than an inherent defect in your shingles, such as:

improper fastening of your shingles or application not in strict accordance with GAFMC's printed application instructions.

I will send GAF photos so they can decline warranty.

This is taking a lot of energy from me. Sapping my resolve. I want to fight for what's right. Not sure I'm up for it.
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