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Old 08-29-2007, 12:04 AM   #16
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nils are driven in the wrong places on ridge vent,should be over the vent so the cap lies flat,the skylight gasket at the window looks like garbage,the step flashing is not properly spaced w/shingle exposure,I&Wobviously doesn`t end on skylight curb as mfgr requires,and yes that gap is definitely a leak waiting to happenput a tarp opver the light that laps over the ridge,weigh it down w/pavers(do not put fasteners thru the roof!)also from your pics,i see where shingles are lifted in several areas where it appears the reason would be nails sitting up that weren`t driven flush-attend to this immediately before the shingle settles over these nails and creates holes all over your roof-looks to be a very poor installation-sorry to be the bearer of bad news

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Old 08-29-2007, 12:28 AM   #17
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On top of all that my decking is 1/2" plywood on 2x3 trusses spaced 24" on center with no clips on any of the plywood.
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Old 08-29-2007, 01:14 AM   #18
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probably 2x4(actual 1 1/2" x 3 1/2")--be glad you don`t have OSB THE ROOF SHOULD BE TAKEN CARE OF PROPERLY-I guess you`ve never had a problem w/ the sheathing before,a lot of people feel the clips are primarily for spacing-they certainly aren`t very strong!--the ridge vent will be a problem because the shingles can`t seal cleanly over the fasteners and water will rust those nails out and eventually cause it to leak THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS
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Old 08-29-2007, 01:20 AM   #19
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No 2x3 and 2x3 in interior wall studs. Had to take 1" off stock HD door frames to make same width as wall and sheet rock. Inferior house.

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Old 08-29-2007, 11:11 AM   #20
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Took closer look at the ridge vent. There are 2 nails on each side of the ridge. GAF specification only calls for one on each side.

TRG the nails are on the vent, in some cases barely. They are driven too deep, compressing the vent material. In my mind there should be a full 3/4 " gap for air across the whole ridge vent line.

On a brighter note the exposed wood in the photo turned out to be a leaf

Upon lifting a few shingles here and there looking at the nails, some are in at a slight angle with the head just slightly protruding on one side of the nail head. Maybe about 1/16". Could be some that are worse.

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Old 08-29-2007, 12:57 PM   #21
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exactly what i`m talking about w/the nails,and ridge vent(nails shouldn`t compress the ridge vent,water will go to the depressed area/nail
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Old 08-29-2007, 06:45 PM   #22
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That is one of the main reasons I use the Shingle Vent II, because of the rigid surface to nail in.

On the roll out products, there is too much opportunity to under drive the nail or over drive the nail, mostly by the common monkey shinglers though, which unfortunately is too often the case.

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Old 08-29-2007, 07:06 PM   #23
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I got other problems to. I think leaks waiting to happen. Without trying to hard I found nails right where 2 shingles butt together. Seems to me water can penetrate and rust the nail.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6810/suc30010te0.jpg
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Old 08-29-2007, 07:28 PM   #24
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Doc, you have got to read this. Does this narrative describe the shingle installers on your home roofing project?

Anyone who brags about how "Fast" they can get the job done worries me right off the bat, because I have to wonder, "What Items Are Being Short-Cutted And What Attention To Details Are Being Ommitted?"

As a contractor for nearly 24 years so far, I am always amazed at how speed on a project impresses some homeowners, when in actuality, the 30 plus year duration and potential functional life of the newly installed roofing shingles are more dependant upon the attention, care and quality of workmanship during the initial installation process.

Here is a very informative piece of reading material I came across recently while searching through my saved Word Documents. This absolutely is the best description of the all too common "Shinglers" who pretend to actually be "Roofers."


Jack Rabbit Roofers:

Have you ever observed a jack rabbit? They are extremely fast as they hop across the prairie pausing occasionally to catch their breath. I have applied that term to many roofers based on similar movements while operating roofing nail guns. While speed is important in doing any job, it is not the most important facet of a job. Safety and accuracy rank much higher than speed in my book when you are trying to achieve a quality job. Nearly all roofers know the correct placement of nails in a roofing shingle but in real practice very few actually get the nails in the right spots. Every shingle wrapper gives explicit instructions about this. So what is the problem?

Roofers are normally compensated by the amount of shingles nailed down on a given job. The quicker they can nail them down, the more they make. After all, the roof LOOKS the same whether it is nailed correctly or incorrectly. Shingles that are incorrectly installed tend to develop problems later such as blow-off in high winds, slippage in hot weather and leaks.

Manufacturers will not warrant their shingles if they are installed incorrectly. The correct nailing pattern is four nails per shingle with the two outside nails being within one inch of each end and the other two being evenly spaced between the ends. Six nails are advised for areas noted for high winds. The nails should not be too high on the shingle or too low. On a dimensional shingle, it is imperative to locate the nails along ‘the nailing strip’, a one inch wide portion of the shingle. Jack Rabbit roofers cannot possibly hit this nailing strip on a consistent basis and still maintain speed. Jack Rabbit roofers tend to ‘spray’ their nails. They sound impressive and fast while working but the actual truth is they are doing a very poor job.

I have had many job applicants who boast, “I can nail down four square an hour.” I would never hire someone like this. I look for quality rather than quantity. It is better to do a job right and have it last than to do it wrong and have problems with it later. On three-tab roofs, many roofers will only use three nails per shingle to gain speed but the roofs show lifting just a few years later.

Ed

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Old 08-29-2007, 08:48 PM   #25
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Before I hired this roofing company I explained to him that I was concerned about the use of the nail guns because of the speed which they could be used, and my concern for getting the nails down square, flush to the roof line. Naturally, he assured me that it would be done. In business for over 24 years and no complaints that I could find, I gave him the job.

Even I know the butt joints of the shingles come 1/4 1/2 3/4 so you don't nail at those points. When I see him I can tell you exactly how it will go down. Don't worry it's minor. I'll send my guy over to fix it. How will he fix it I will ask? Well, well see when he gets there. A hour or two latter the man will tell me I'm all set. I'll go up find more nails at butt joints (go ballistic) and call the owner, get phone mail, leave message, while sitting on pins & needles.
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Old 08-29-2007, 09:07 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docfletcher View Post
I got other problems to. I think leaks waiting to happen. Without trying to hard I found nails right where 2 shingles butt together. Seems to me water can penetrate and rust the nail.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6810/suc30010te0.jpg


I came across this every once and a while. I would always cut the shingle back. I guess some people just tar over the nail heads.
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Old 08-29-2007, 09:11 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer View Post
That is one of the main reasons I use the Shingle Vent II, because of the rigid surface to nail in.

On the roll out products, there is too much opportunity to under drive the nail or over drive the nail, mostly by the common monkey shinglers though, which unfortunately is too often the case.

Ed

Ed

Have you ever tried OC ventsure rolled ridge vent. I just wanted to get your thoughts on this product.
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Old 08-29-2007, 09:34 PM   #28
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Malcolm, Explain please, cut the shingle back? I would like to see such shingles pulled and replaced properly. Is that doable, or is it a pipe dream because they would make things worse. Tar over them is not a option, sooner or latter they will leak. I need to resolve this while it's fresh. A year or two goes by and I may lose all recourse.

Ridge vent is really no big deal. $100.00 and I can buy another and put it on myself. Even I can do a better job with that then they did.

Ed, I may be your field tester for the DCI ridge vent sooner than either of us thought.
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:13 PM   #29
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On a house that I am doing a temperature before and after experiment on in the near future, DCI wanted to see if I would use their Smart Ridge Vent product, but I already had the specifications signed and agreed to for the Shingle Vent II.

I'm not about to start switching the specifications post signature.

Doc, the shingles should be removed and replaced and not tarred or caulked if they are in line with the side butt joints. The nails need to be carefully removed from the shingles above the ones in question to remove the incorrectly installed shingle.

And yes, you definitely will be able to to a better job on the ridge vent yourself, but calculate how many hours including all set up time and clean up time and loading materials plus the actual installation time and multiply those hours by $ 75.00 per hour to see what the proper installation time should cost for doing that. Be sure to use long enough nails. I use 2 1/2" hand roofing nails for all of my ridge vents and ridge vent cap shingles.




Malcolm, I used the vent sure, but I mistakenly called it something else in another professional forum I participate in. In the occasion I used it, it worked fine, which was for a vaulted ceiling room with a hip roof over head.

I will re-edit to add the link to the photos of that installation end result. The in job photos are not scanned in yet.

http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=38556



Ed

Last edited by Ed the Roofer; 08-29-2007 at 10:16 PM. Reason: added link to hip vent on one year old roof. Ed
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:26 PM   #30
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Anyone have any ideas what to do if the roofer don't want to pull improper nailed shingle?

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