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Old 11-20-2012, 03:40 PM   #16
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New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!


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Originally Posted by Neeko View Post
things just get overlooked, its no ones fault, things just happen sometime."
Yeah right,.maybe like a member of a Nascar pit crew who forgets to tighten up 3 lug nuts before the driver gets back on the track ready to run @ 185mph.,.or the fireman who forgets to fill up the water tank on the fire engine before being called out to a 4 alarm fire.

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Old 11-20-2012, 07:19 PM   #17
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New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!


I can't wrap my mind around the idea they didn't know there wasn't any flashing, nor what to do about it. WTH????

This by Andy;
"Flashing around a chimney is roofing 101. Even if it were missed, the contractor knows there is a chimney on the roof and has flashing built into his cost. We charge a specific amount per chimney, it is built into our job cost."

I mean, what the heck? I can't do the roof without flashing. It has nothing to do with whether or not any was already there. WTH? It's probbaly bad anyway after 20 years of service. Replacement is roofing 101.

Legally, I had to sign soemthing to the effect that stated I had to perform to certain standards. Even if I had to take a loss to do so. I don't remember the wording, but I would have been in serious poo-poo if I had left it like that with our SCC and BPOR regulatory agencies.
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Old 05-21-2013, 07:22 PM   #18
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New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!






















Sorry it's taken so long but I finally have the pictures to show everyone. Comments are always welcome and to those who have already helped, I appreciate it.

I am SAD to say that we are still going around and around, I am now being told that the roofer will do the flashing at $X amount of dollars BUT I need to find someone to do the mason work of removing and reinstalling the rock after they are done doing the flashing. Which of course will cost money as well.

So, I now see why they DID NOT do the flashing...they had no way of removing the stone and then putting it back and therefore just figured and hoped I guess that it would not leak and I would have no idea. That's all I can think of.

But as you can see THIS is what they saw when they came out to give me an est. of the new roof. So as a roofer if you came out and looked at my roof would you see with the blind eye that I never had flashing? I'm no roofer so I had NO idea we never had flashing around our chimney so I was not trying to pull a fast one...BUT as you can see now ALMOST A YEAR LATER the effects the water has caused INSIDE the home now too.

I've stated everything you all have said to the roofer but bottom line he is saying he is not responsible for the flashing when it was installed and that for $X amount he will make it right.

So before I proceed with going to court any helpful advice would be appreciated! Thanks!

PS: These pictures of the roof are AFTER the NEW roof was installed...However, this is what they saw when they came to do the est. meaning the old roof was just a lot older but the shingles where as they are now up against the chimney like this... so when I asked IF you saw this when you came out to give an est. on my roof would your trained eye know I DID NOT have flashing????

Last edited by Neeko; 05-21-2013 at 07:29 PM. Reason: Needed to add a PS:
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:49 PM   #19
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New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!


I just looked at your chimney and frankly it simply does not lend itself to be flashed properly. Not to mince words, it was built by an idiot. Any decent mason knows that he has to set counter flashing into the mortar joints of field stone, so they set their stone to make this possible. The guy that built this chimney was on Krak.

A stepped, cut in, counter-flashing of lead coated copper and new base flashing has to be installed to do this right. It will require cutting through rock with a diamond masonry blade. SInce you are in Florida, I would coat the chimney from the CF up with a good clear waterproofing like Hydrozo Enviroseal also after making sure all mortar is properly pointed.

We are not supposed to discuss prices, but it is my opinion that this chimney cannot be properly corrected for anywhere near 500 dollars. For that price all you are going to get is a schlock job with more roof cement.

You need a proper specification by a knowledgeable individual. Looks like this one is over the local building departments head.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:10 AM   #20
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New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!


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Any decent mason knows that he has to set counter flashing into the mortar joints of field stone, so they set their stone to make this possible. The guy that built this chimney was on Krak.

A stepped, cut in, counter-flashing of lead coated copper and new base flashing has to be installed to do this right. It will require cutting through rock with a diamond masonry blade. SInce you are in Florida, I would coat the chimney from the CF up with a good clear waterproofing like Hydrozo Enviroseal also after making sure all mortar is properly pointed.

You need a proper specification by a knowledgeable individual. Looks like this one is over the local building departments head.
I agree and thank you so much for your detailed info on how the new mason job should be done.

I can't believe it but got a call just last night from my roofer stating that he does not want to go to court and has agreed to do the job of flashing around the chimney without charging me.

However, he stated he is not a mason so he will call around and get some contractors to come and look at the chimney to give a price. The kicker is he will do the job he was suppose to do (flashing) but stated, "You will need to pay for the mason work on the chimney to remove and add back the stone."

Do you have any idea on what that would cost me and or is that his responsibility and just trying to pass the BIG $ stuff off to me? I'm glad he is not charging me to add the chimney flashing (which was to be done right when the roof was put on.)
BUT now there is damage as a result of the "new roof" leaking due to the job not being done correct inside my living room. Is his insurance responsible for this?

So confused as to how I should proceed.
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:02 AM   #21
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I can't do the roof without flashing. It has nothing to do with whether or not any was already there. WTH?

Legally, I had to sign soemthing to the effect that stated I had to perform to certain standards. Even if I had to take a loss to do so. I don't remember the wording, but I would have been in serious poo-poo if I had left it like that with our SCC and BPOR regulatory agencies.

Thank you for your post.

Was wondering when you said "Legally, I had to sign something to the effect that stated I had to perform to certain standards. Even if I had to take a loss to do so."

Do you mean as a certified roofer/contractor that was licensed? Reason I ask is I'm wondering if all specialist in their field have to sign something like this in each state they are licensed to work in?

What are SCC and BPOR regulatory agencies?

Roofer now wants to do the flashing around the chimney, "however" I feel itís in part that he just wants me to go away and not go to court. But it appears now there are a lot more issues that I myself do not know my rights on and maybe he does. (damage inside the home)

Hence, he just wants to finish the flashing around the chimney and make the leak stop, then I will shut up.
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:20 AM   #22
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New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!


OK something is missing here. You say you bought this house in 1991.

Now considering the fact that there has been no flashing on this chimney since 1977, are you telling us that there have been no leaks around the chimney until the new roof was installed???

I would venture a guess that this chimney has been leaking from the day the first roof was installed, based on what we can see in the pictures, and I do not think it is fair to hit the roofer up for an existing condition. This being said, I, and all the other guys responding here would have been on that chimney like cat hair on a wool suit. I would have insisted on seeing the interior of your home and would have taken photos of existing conditions. I even require this of roofers in my specifications so there is no question of existing conditions down the road.

As far as the masonry work goes, the roofer really blew it here on his price, but I would not rub his nose in it. Splitting the cost seems reasonable to me.

I would most definately demand that the mason use minimum 16 oz. lead coated copper counterflashing when he does his work. It is by far the best thing to use in this case as it can be reused the next time around. How he is going to install it is another story with this chimney, as it has no horizontal mortar joints anywhere. Saw cutting is the only answer. Maybe he can cut out the stone and use brick below the flashing where you cant see it, and stone from there up.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:35 AM   #23
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Per my orig. post I stated,

"Did it all "right" and then found out AFTER it is all done.... THERE IS NO FLASHING AROUND THE CHIMNEY!!! BUT was later informed by my roofer/contractor that he was told by his ROOFING CREW that there was no flashing around the chimney when pulling they pulled off the OLD ROOF (which old roof back in the day like 10 yrs. ago did leak in that area...had a guy come out and he did some kind of "patch/black sticky stuff, etc." and it never leaked again.)"

House was bought in 1991 (current spouse purchased it) then I moved in around 1996. Roof leak happened around 2001 and right away we had a roof leak specialist come out and he fixed the problem that very same week when we noticed it.

Current roofer that did our new roof has been in our home and that room (living room) prior to doing the job and saw for himself no water damage (no stain on ceiling/water marks down wall/etc.)

When I called him the 1st time to say it's "raining" inside our living room he came out the very next day and he saw for himself the wet cedar wall. I even took video to show him how bad it was. At that time there was no water marks on the ceiling. (Yet)

But fast forward now almost a year and showers upon showers in Florida has caused this much damage. And half my disappointment has been "each time" it rains I watch water go down the wall in the corner and I grab towels, etc. to try and soak it up but know deep down inside this is not good.

Trust me, IF money was no option I would have just paid to make this all stop. Our main problem #1. No extra funds and #2. WHY do we have to PAY for something that was not our fault (no flashing installed, but yet signed off as “Approved” in the area of flashing and on final inspection of the new roof)?

Luckily, I have family pictures taken by the fireplace that show that same wall and ceiling line (prior to the new roof) and you see no water marks/damage.

As of last night talking with the roofer he has agreed to NOT CHARGE me on doing the flashing (roof work around the chimney, which orig. he was going to charge me $500) but stated I need to pay for the mason work (?) would I be right in saying we "split" the cost of the mason work?
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Old 05-22-2013, 01:27 PM   #24
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I Think that is fair, yes. He clearly blew it on his proposal, per your narrative. of course there are three sides to every story.
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:55 PM   #25
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Neeko, I can't remember the wording. It comes down to ethos, morals, and finally legality.
I'm under the impression that all contractors are 'under oath' not to do you harm, nor leave you 'less than whole'. nor with less than you had when I started.
You have to be whole when I work on your house, except in the case of 'best effort' repairs when money or other factors may preclude a complete restoration.

If I did your roof, all details would be taken care of. The chimney flashing would have been included along with pipe collars, etc.

We have flashed those with copper and counter-flashed with 4# lead that would follow the rock pattern and blend in with chimney.
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:14 PM   #26
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"Do you mean as a certified roofer/contractor that was licensed? Reason I ask is I'm wondering if all specialist in their field have to sign something like this in each state they are licensed to work in?
I believe so, but don't 'know' it. My own ethos would allow me to do it, legal or not. I have to live with myself. Though my techniques may differ with Jagans, for example, I believe from reading his posts, among others, he would leave you, as would I, even if the style or method used is different. Different in roofing isn't always a matter of right versus wrong, just different.
I also bet neither or us would have done that to you either. Same with most everybody on this and other forums. We take pride in our work.
You ran into a jackleg.
Apologies for not using others here for an example. I respect all of you.

What are SCC and BPOR regulatory agencies?
State Corporation Commission.

Sorry for the typo. It's DPOR.
http://www.dpor.virginia.gov/

I'm listed in there somewhere. We are regulated.
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:28 PM   #27
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New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!


The chimney can be flashed with an apron, cricket, and step flashing normally, then use lead to counter-flash it and it will look natural.
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New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!-leaded-stone-chimney.jpg   New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!-stone-chimney.jpg  
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:24 PM   #28
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New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!


BTW, your chimney isn't going to work with a cricket. You'll want a rear pan that sticks out onto the roof about 6-8" and tinner-winged to kick the water away from it.
The rake edge needs to extend 2-3" past the rake and have the edge turned up, so the finished product extends about 1 to 1-1/2" past the outer shingles.
The pan should have a bit of slope so the water turns towards the roof proper, BUT NOT so much as to open a huge hole on the upper/rake end.

EDITED TO ADD! Since you're in Fla. and can't have a cricket behind that monster, if it was me doing it, I'd add a diverter about a foot up the roof from the back of the chimney and extend it 4"-6" beyond the chimney corner. No need to to make the pan handle the whole deluge in a huge storm.

It should look about like this pic on the roof side.



The front corner should look a bit like the third picture with a tinner's wing that exits on top of the front pan.
Attached Thumbnails
New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!-back-pan-end-details.jpg   New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!-chimney-job-12-.jpg   New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!-front-corner-tinners-wing.jpg  

Last edited by tinner666; 05-23-2013 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:31 PM   #29
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Please note that I'm interested in the roof/flashing details and all these pictures are of that and the counter-flashing is NOT installed, nor are these the completed projects. BUT, get these details correct, and it's almost impossibe to get a leak no matter how bad the C-F work.
Here are a couple of pix ot a 100+ year old roof with tinner's wings and no caulk. No leaks either. and you can look all the way across the roof between the chimney and the back pan without interference.
Honestly, it's typical old-school. Cut the corners nice, tight, and neat and caulk is the only thing keeping the water out.
Attached Thumbnails
New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!-chimney-wings.jpg   New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!-chimney-wings-2-.jpg   New Roof, Leaks, No Flashing....HELP!-chimney-wings-5-.jpg  

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