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Old 11-26-2008, 12:29 PM   #1
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need some terminology answers


I recently had my roof replaced due to hurricane Ike. I told the roofer to use fiberglass shingles and he put on the itemized bill that he used "comp." shingles. Is that the same thing or just a terminology difference? Also, what is an "Engineer Fee"?

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Old 11-26-2008, 02:29 PM   #2
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Comp. Shingles stands for "Composition Shingles", which is just a generic word describing that the shingle is "Composed" of various products adhered together.

Did you specify in writing in the written signed contract precisely what brand and style of shingle that they would be installing?

If so, do you know what brand and style they actually installed?

Engineering fee would be a fee for hiring an Engineer, usually Civil or Structural and they usually are certified and degreed.

Is this a fee that they charged to you unknowingly at the end of the job, or a line item that they submitted via their Xactimate line item estimate break down to the insurance company to upgrade the disbursement amount for the work being done?

Ed

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Old 11-26-2008, 02:41 PM   #3
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The insurance agent specified 3-tab, fiberglass, 20 year and they put on the itemized bill that it was 3-tab, comp., 20 year.

Initially, the insurance adjuster shorted the length of my roof by 6'. The roofer (a Nationwide company) then contacted the adjuster because I also needed to replace 3 sheets of board that were cracked by tree limbs that the adjuster also did not add in. Making it shorter, I never did get a figure on the adjustment by either party and because of a few other problems, I ended up having to demand an itemized list of exactly what was put on my roof and all other charges. He was suppose to do the roof for what the insurance was willing to pay plus my deductible of $500. The service was terrible, but the roof looks sound (had a roofer check it).

The insurance will not cover an engineer fee as they say it isn't a necessary charge, so do I still have to pay it? What a mess this has been.

I do not know the brand or fire rating or anything. I have asked my adjuster for a copy of the second bid, but he left for California due to the fires and evidentally forgot to put it in the mail.

Last edited by MPIC; 11-26-2008 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 11-26-2008, 05:50 PM   #4
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The claims department will be able to have ANY other adjuster look up your file and be able to get you your rightfully requested and deserved copy of the 2nd adjustment figures.

The engineering report may have been necessitated by the fact that the insurance company's initial analysis did not provide for the structural damage repairs in addition to the shingle roof replacement.

Insurance Adjusters Do Not Represent the Home Owner, but have the financial benefit of their insurance company at heart. This is contrary to what they self servingly speak, when dealing with the insureds who are inconvenienced with the claims process.

Nation wide Storm Chasers are very slick at getting home owners to sign a contingency agreement without much, if any version of an actual contract for the services they are contracted to perform.

Unless you specifically agreed in writing that you would be responsible for an engineering fee, then I personally do not see your responsibility to pay that fee.

But, if it was necessary for them to obtain the services of an engineer to get the structural repairs done to your home, then your insurance company should be responsible for reimbursing you that amount.

Little known ans understood by the general public and the majority of ALL Contractors out there, is that your policy, (Usually), is for a Replacement Cost for the agreed upon scope of work.

Most home owners are verbally conned by their insurance companies into feeling leveraged into going only with one contractor who will do the job for Only the amount that the insurance company calculations say that the price should be.

Wrong.

Hire any local contractor with a quality proven local track record and you will get reimbursed for the full replacement value of the actual contract amount.

It is your responsibility now, to determine if you have benefited from or authorized the storm chaser roofing contractor to proceed with the additional engeneering expense and their responsibility to substantiate that expense, not as some figure just pulled out of a hat to increase the invoice amount.

If they legitimately had to incur that expense to get your claim processed for the correct scope of work, then they are owed for that service by you, their contracted party, and your insurance company is legally obligated to reimburse you for that required expense.

Ed
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:13 AM   #5
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I really don't understand what the engineer fee is about. Nothing was ever said about it during the entire time and the roofers and salesman were the only ones I saw. There is also some question about $100 they charged me for sales tax. According to the state, they do not have a sales tax ID. The thing that alerted me to that was the % they used to calculate it.

One more question. Is it a common practice to only replace the "top" of the vents and not the base?
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Old 11-27-2008, 01:26 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by MPIC View Post
I really don't understand what the engineer fee is about. Nothing was ever said about it during the entire time and the roofers and salesman were the only ones I saw. There is also some question about $100 they charged me for sales tax. According to the state, they do not have a sales tax ID. The thing that alerted me to that was the % they used to calculate it.

One more question. Is it a common practice to only replace the "top" of the vents and not the base?
Unless they are a retailer selling you merchandice, I do not believe that any tax should be charged. Your best bet I think, woud be to call your local taxing agency, but I am starting to feel these guys are very slimey, so a letter to the Attorney General of your state may be in order.

The vents? I just have to see some pictures of the items you are speaking of please.

Regular vents do not come apart, so you may be referring to a pipe flashing cover, which those pipes are called soil stack breather vents.

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Old 11-27-2008, 01:38 AM   #7
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First I want to say how much I appreciate your help!

I did go to the tax authority which is how I found out that there was no record of a tax ID. I still have not paid them in full because the billing is so much of a mess and have no problem with paying them what I owe as I do have the money to do it. I have checked their BBB standing which is fine...that might change now. Quite frankly, I wish I had the money for an attorney to look all of this over. I do not want to settle the entire bill until I'm satisfied, but also don't want to come home some day to find my roof ripped off for non-payment. I have left word with ins. company to call me in order to obtain a copy of the adjustment. The state told me how to proceed with them on the taxes. With the holiday, it buys me some time to find out on here what all this means.

It may be the flashing. I will ask the roofer who actually went up there.
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Old 12-13-2008, 10:58 PM   #8
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If you have a 20-year warranty on those shingles, but have no paperwork to prove when you purchased or installed them, will the shingle company honor their warranty? Also, if you do not know the brand or manufacturer, how will you know who to contact if there is a problem before the end of the 20 years?

Calling the BBB is fine, but even if there aren't any registered complaints about the company you intend to do business with, don't assume that company is reputable and honest. The only way the BBB knows about a less-than-honest company is if a consumer takes the time to call them to complain AND fill out the paperwork AND return it to the BBB. Too many people don't have/take the time to do this so the BBB never finds out about a lot of the bad guys. I've been told that www.angieslist.com is a much better and more informative source for the things you need to know prior to hiring someone.
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Old 12-14-2008, 07:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gma2rjc View Post
If you have a 20-year warranty on those shingles, but have no paperwork to prove when you purchased or installed them, will the shingle company honor their warranty? Also, if you do not know the brand or manufacturer, how will you know who to contact if there is a problem before the end of the 20 years?

Calling the BBB is fine, but even if there aren't any registered complaints about the company you intend to do business with, don't assume that company is reputable and honest. The only way the BBB knows about a less-than-honest company is if a consumer takes the time to call them to complain AND fill out the paperwork AND return it to the BBB. Too many people don't have/take the time to do this so the BBB never finds out about a lot of the bad guys. I've been told that www.angieslist.com is a much better and more informative source for the things you need to know prior to hiring someone.
I completely agree with your BBB comment,
but do not agree with your angieslist comment.
On line services like angieslist, service magic, etc., do not take the time to get written proof of license, insurances, etc., from the contractors advertising on their sites, thus not every contractor advertised on those type of sites are legit or qualified contractors.

I myself 'Fox Roofing' signed up for well over a dozen of those types of sites through out the 2000 thru 2005 time frame and not once was I asked to provide any proof of legitimacy.
Since 2006 I have restricted my on line listings to non-referral sites,
they are nothing more than an online phone book.

Talk to local roofing material supply houses,
search out other home owners who have used that contractor,
contact your local city offices and ask about them,
contact your state attorneys office, etc.
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
I completely agree with your BBB comment,
but do not agree with your angieslist comment.
On line services like angieslist, service magic, etc., do not take the time to get written proof of license, insurances, etc., from the contractors advertising on their sites, thus not every contractor advertised on those type of sites are legit or qualified contractors.
This is the first I've heard of that. Thanks for letting us know. I was looking at the Angie's list website a while back, but if I remember right, there is a monthly charge to use it. Now I'm glad I didn't waste my money.
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:41 PM   #11
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full roof section/roof replaced =capitol improvement-no tax
pieces/parts replaced from sections equal repair which is taxable
angie`s list requires contractors to have a good rating before they allow you to advertize-hitch is it`s homeowners with no roofing knowledge who rate them-a better site to check would be www.roofingcontractorsreview.com where you have highly skilled contractors rating the actual work ,and details performed
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Old 12-15-2008, 08:12 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gma2rjc View Post
This is the first I've heard of that. Thanks for letting us know. I was looking at the Angie's list website a while back, but if I remember right, there is a monthly charge to use it. Now I'm glad I didn't waste my money.
I'm not attempting to advertise against Angieslist, or any other such type on line services, but they are not a full proof way of obtaining information.

Your internet searches should be to find multiple contractors operating in your local area so you can contact them for 'free' estimates.
It doesn't matter if your looking to spend 8000.00 on a re-roof,
800.00 on a repair, or just want your roof inspected,
you should always get multiple estimates to assure you get both the best price and the best service.
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:17 PM   #13
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Unless you hire one of us,Then you`re in good shape-lol
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Old 12-15-2008, 02:01 PM   #14
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I suppose it's just like anything else, even if they have good recommendations from a website or a good friend, the person needing the work done and hiring the professional still needs to do their own homework and thoroughly check the professional's work background.

Have you ever given someone a quote for some work, like doing a tear-off and shingling, and then get up there and find a lot more damage than you expected? What's the worst reaction a customer has ever had after you told him/her it will cost more?
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:16 AM   #15
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I started my business in 1994 and have found damage I did not see during the estimation twice, and both times the home owners handled it very well.

When I'm measuring a roof for an estimate, I am also thoroughly inspecting it as I go, and i always do core samples to look at the deck, thus I seldom miss bad decking issues, etc.

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