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Old 05-12-2010, 11:52 PM   #31
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Need advice on vaulted ceiling insulation


Quote:
Originally Posted by seeyou View Post
Rent a blower and fill it full of Cellulose. Pack it as tight as possible.
This is bad insulating advice. You need cellulose and fiberglass insulation to be loosely packed in order to trap the air needed to provide insulating properties.

Find a foam insulator that does pour in place. He can get this done.

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Old 05-12-2010, 11:55 PM   #32
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Need advice on vaulted ceiling insulation


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Originally Posted by tpolk View Post
take the dry wall down, sister deeper framing to vault framing, use proper insulation and soffit venting with insulation baffles
I think it would be cheaper and easier to remove the roof and foam it from the outside unless youre talking about doubling the depth of the framing, you can get double the insulating factor with foam with the same space.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:58 PM   #33
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Need advice on vaulted ceiling insulation


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Originally Posted by jaminduncan View Post
So it's okay to block the soffits? It won't create moisture in that area?
This is another reason to go with Closed Cell foam... it is a vapor barrier and will not allow moisture in out or through.

No insulation creates moisture.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:59 PM   #34
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Need advice on vaulted ceiling insulation


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Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Do NOT block the soffits
Air movement is required
This is partially true, but also mostly not.
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:08 AM   #35
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Need advice on vaulted ceiling insulation


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
If you are in CA you are using AC ?

So.....cool AC air hits warmer air...moisture
Or you have heat on at some point...cooler air hits warm air...same thing
I've never seen any method that blocks 100% of moisture/temp transfer

And being in a hot climate you will shorten the roof life without ventialtion
Many Mfgs you void the shingle warranty without ventialtion
Proper ventilation AND enough insulation will get rid of both problems

Rafter vents are installed, then insulation
Get R22 insulation if possible
Best bet is to fir out the studs for more insulation


Moisture would have to be present in the inside to condense on interior surfaces. In your example, air conditioned air carries MUCH less moisture than warm air. Moist air will deposit moisture on COLD surfaces, but the moisture must be present in the air, which it wouldn't be if the air is on.

Now, heated air will carry moisture when then heat is going. this means that it would most likely be cold outside. If you're properly insulated, your dew point should fall somewhere within the insulation assembly, not at either surface. This means that the hot/cold interface would not be exposed to each other, and condensation could not occur.

Also in your example, R 22 is ok for moderate climates for purposes of heating, but depending on where you're at, you would want a bit more than that if you're heating OR cooling your indoor climate. 5" of CC foam will yield the theoretical numerical number of R-33, depending on the blowing agent.
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:11 AM   #36
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Need advice on vaulted ceiling insulation


Also, it has been shown that you do not necessarily shorten roof life without ventilation, if you dont have higher than ambient attic temps. This is why foaming to the bottom of the deck makes so much sense... it does not allow interior heat at the roof, nor outside heat to the living space.

Foam is not a heat sink substrate. Neither is wood roof decking.
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:13 AM   #37
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Need advice on vaulted ceiling insulation


Quote:
Originally Posted by seeyou View Post
cooler air hits warm air...same thing
I've never seen any method that blocks 100% of moisture/temp transfer


Yeah, but if there's no space for air to move in the vault then then there's no air moving through it and consequently no moisture transfer - or very little.

And being in a hot climate you will shorten the roof life without ventialtion
Many Mfgs you void the shingle warranty without ventialtion


That used to be true about the warranties, but not any more because it was based on misconception. Yes, the sheathing surface may be a few degrees warmer, but not enough to make any significant difference in shingle life. Every shingle manufacturer I'm familiar with changed that clause years ago.

Proper ventilation AND enough insulation will get rid of both problems.

That's true, but without major re-construction, those two items together are not an option. Cellulose and closed cell foam don't have the condensation problems that fiberglass batts do.
Nice post, copper
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:01 AM   #38
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Need advice on vaulted ceiling insulation


Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronB View Post
This is bad insulating advice. You need cellulose and fiberglass insulation to be loosely packed in order to trap the air needed to provide insulating properties.

Find a foam insulator that does pour in place. He can get this done.
That may be true for blown fiberglass. Google "dense pack cellulose" and/or "Mooney wall". I know guys that have been dense packing cellulose for many years with great results. Not as good as closed cell foam, but a better ROA in many cases, the OP's scenario looking like a good fit to me.
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:52 PM   #39
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Need advice on vaulted ceiling insulation


Quote:
Originally Posted by seeyou View Post
That may be true for blown fiberglass. Google "dense pack cellulose" and/or "Mooney wall". I know guys that have been dense packing cellulose for many years with great results. Not as good as closed cell foam, but a better ROA in many cases, the OP's scenario looking like a good fit to me.
I will check it out... I am always better off with up to date information.

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