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Old 11-13-2012, 07:16 PM   #16
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Mystery Leak Running Out Of Ideas...


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Originally Posted by miamicuse View Post
Done two tests, spraying all around the chimney, up to six rows of tiles down from the chimney and no leak...until an hour later, a slow leak develops, at least 10 minutes after I STOPPED spraying.
That tells me you're getting close, you just have to keep narrowing it down. Sometimes it takes awhile for the water to work it's way in.

Playing with a hose is cheaper than ripping things apart.

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Old 11-13-2012, 07:42 PM   #17
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Mystery Leak Running Out Of Ideas...


Wrap the chim in plastic or tarp prior to the next rain or do this then do a water test with the hose.

With the chimney wrapped up well, go to town with the hose. If it doesnt leak you have eliminated the field tiles below the chimney. This is also the area you determined in your first water test to the problem area.

If it leaks it has to the tiles in front of the chimney and not the chimney or flashing...either way you will eliminate either the chimney as the issue or the field at the front of the chimney as the issue and should tell you what you want to know.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:24 PM   #18
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That flashing is not how it would be done here, the bottom piece should be on top of the tiles, as in these diagrams. The way it is now, relies totally on the underlay to keep water out of the house, when the tiles are meant to be the first line of defence against water infiltration.
Also, I see too little headlap ( the part of each course of tiles covered by the course above), and am I correct in saying that the fixing holes in the tiles are in the pan rather than at the top of the profile as is the norm here? Both could cause leaks that only appear during heavy/driving rain.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:00 AM   #19
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I'm not sure where the leak is from either, but...."Now, the company who I originally hired to do the flashing, is ABSOLUTELY SURE they did the flashing correctly and the problem is NOT POSSIBLY with the flashing, and the only way they will come back out is to redo the whole valley, because he is NOW SURE the problem is with the valley due to his over 40 years of roofing experience."

That's a laugh. I can't see where they flashed anything, whether or not the chimney is or isn't leaking. Putting a piece of metal around a chimney does not constitute flashing. Flashing would direct water onto the roof if water touched it. What they did do is make some money for pretending to do something. Flashign wouldn't have involved all that cement either.
Here are some pix to give you an idea. Slate instead of tile, but the method is the same for either. http://www.albertsroofing.com/Chimney%20Repair.htm

Last edited by tinner666; 11-14-2012 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:50 AM   #20
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MGP`s diagram is what I am talking about,,and I know Tinner usually has some pics to show an actual job done well,,,I agree with the 2 of them wholeheartedly,,,Strangely enough in this business,,doing something for 40 tears, Unfortunately doesn`t mean they have done it right for 40 years,,,Just possibly that they are copying something they were shown,,and don`t know any better---I would advise you to look thru Tinners links,,as he is in my opinion a consummate professional
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:14 AM   #21
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Mystery Leak Running Out Of Ideas...


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I would have made the flashing from lead,,and flashed the bottom of chimney over the lower tiles,,,integrate the side tiles with step,,and use a backopan that dumps out to the sides,,I say flashing should be redone---way you`re set up,,the mortar absorbs the water,,any cracks in mortar allow water to get down below line of roof tiles,,which causes the problem
I agree somewhat with this. (not with the lead though). The flashing isn't installed quite right. It's not completely wrong, but still... not quite right. Like MPG Roof also stated, there should be a flashing ABOVE the tile to shed the water off the chimney wall on top of the tile. With the way yours is installed, any water that may leach down the chimney is being shed under your roof tile. For a moment lets assume that the work done AT the chimney is stopping the water. When they did the work on the chimney they should have removed a larger area of tile to inspect the underlayment/roof deck surrounding the chimney. That leak could be starting 2 feet to the left or right of the chimney and it is following the grain of the boards below till it finds it's way through. Once water have created a "channel" it will continue to use it until it finds an easier path. There may very well have been a bad leak at the chimney, but it may not have been the only one. In my opinion the contractor should have removed the tile a bare minimum of 4-5' around the chimney to ensure there weren't more problems.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:17 AM   #22
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Yes.Lead is old school,but still used in many applications,including pipeboots,,,,The zinc Mpg mentioned would work well also,,,the `t+g boards to that type of roof system really shouldn`t be removed,as the decking,especially if it is double T+G,3X6 , AS THERE ARE STRUCTURAL FASTENERS RUNNING THRU CONNECTING THE DECKING FOR STRENGTH AS well
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:15 AM   #23
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Yes.Lead is old school,but still used in many applications,including pipeboots,,,,The zinc Mpg mentioned would work well also,,,the `t+g boards to that type of roof system really shouldn`t be removed,as the decking,especially if it is double T+G,3X6 , AS THERE ARE STRUCTURAL FASTENERS RUNNING THRU CONNECTING THE DECKING FOR STRENGTH AS well
The roof deck is plywood I think 3/4" thick. There is a sliver of space above the T&G boards and the roof deck for conduits, shallow recessed electrical boxes and such.

Are you suggesting I remove the T&G ceiling to trace the problem from below? This will be hard the ceiling is 12' to 18' tall and it runs in the 36' long room.



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Old 11-17-2012, 10:20 AM   #24
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OK, if I hire someone new to redo the flashing and surrounding tiles, how is the best way to spec the job?

I know down here probably 8 out of 10 roofers would do the same as what I have right now. Is this a regional thing?

Should I just print out a copy of mgp roofing's post and say "I want to do THIS on this chimney and rip out all tiles within five feet, strip all the way back to the wood deck, repaper and redo all joints, new tiles etc..."
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:49 PM   #25
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Mystery Leak Running Out Of Ideas...


Even though the flashing is not perfect and there is a better way to do as mentioned, that kind of work is done a lot and never leaks.

If you want it right to never have to worry about it then tear it all out and start over. I am still of the opinion that its not the chimney / flashing of the chimney. A proper water test of the roofing in front of the chimney will tell you whats going on. Bag the chimney and test the roofing. If it leaks you know its not the chimney...if it does not leak then it is coming from above, which is the chimney.

You will need to wrap the chimney properly or you risk a false indication.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:59 PM   #26
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There was a framing repair some time ago, and whoever replaced the top plate of a wall, pounded the nail back up from below, that nail punctured the roofing paper but was rusted now and leaking. Once I found the nail I removed the nail and patched in some Home Depot roof sealant. Then I called another roofer, let's say roofer B to come and redo the paper right and put in new tiles because I broke some existing tiles. I also asked them to break more tiles along the footprint of that wall, to make sure there is more nails were hammered back through.
My understanding of the main purpose of that black roofer's paper is to keep things dry while the roof is being worked on, like if it rains before the shingles are all on, it's not a waterproofing membrane it's just cheap easy to tear PAPER, so even if it has a puncture or tear it doesn't matter- 3 tab roofing for example uses LOADS of nails and those all puncture the paper!

I never used the paper, I used the rolls of rubberized Tamko moisture guard on my roof over the whole deck, and that WILL seal around the nails.

Chimneys are always a problem, that's one reason why I got RID of the one my house had- it was leaking for years, no mate rhow much flashing you put in and sealer, the damn things just leak, putting a huge hole in a wood roof for a masonry chimney always struck me as one of the more stupid things humans do.
I suspect getting rid of the chimney would permanently solve the problem, otherwise it will be a constant keeping watch, and patching over and over.


Quote:
Are you suggesting I remove the T&G ceiling to trace the problem from below? This will be hard the ceiling is 12' to 18' tall and it runs in the 36' long room.

I don't want to sound crass, but now you see one of the drawbacks of non-traditional home construction like this, "you" create a situation where the ceiling is so high you need scaffolding, elaborate this and that for any little repair it ever needs, architects, builders and home owners seriously just DO NOT think ahead to maintenace, repairs and replacement when they build stuff like this!
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:00 PM   #27
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:07 PM   #28
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Please don't quote spam. You help the spammer if you do.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:43 PM   #29
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Please don't quote spam. You help the spammer if you do.
I was being funny, I deliberately screwed up his url to make it "spam-city.com". I had reported the post earlier when I saw it.
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:01 PM   #30
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Mystery Leak Running Out Of Ideas...


All the roofers are just guessing. permanent fix, remove all the tile in every direction from sides and top down at least 3 ft away from where the leak drips. Then apply self adhering ice and water shield completely around metal flashings and roof. Replace tile correctly. If your siding is off chimney and exposed, the best flashing is lead. Turn the lead up behind the stucco and then lap the lead on to the tile approx. 4 ''. Replace siding or stucco and you're finished. Be sure to apply Thompson's water seal to the stucco to prevent moisture migration through the stucco.








Yet once all was said and done, when it did rain, it dripped from the same spot down below.

Because I have T&G wood plank ceiling, and that ceiling is very close to the roof deck, both roofers told me the actual leak on the roof deck could have been 10 feet away, and travelled to the spot it dripped down because there is a seam there that allowed water to come through below.

Nonetheless, when the first roofer sent me that valley tear up quote, I didn't hire him to tear up and redo the valley. Instead I measured where the drip came down below, and transferred the measurements up top, and that's where I used the garden hose to sprayed a 10'x10' area near there, and identified the row above which where water would penetrate. I broke a couple of tiles there - which HAPPENS to be near the spot where they replaced tiles when they redid the flashing, just one tile over.

I hired roofer B to do the repair of that punctured nail hole. Here is a picture of what they did. Looks good to me. Note that the chimney was already painted by then.



Now, I have drips from below, same spot.

Not from flashing, not from the nail hole - not anymore.

Done two tests, spraying all around the chimney, up to six rows of tiles down from the chimney and no leak...until an hour later, a slow leak develops, at least 10 minutes after I STOPPED spraying.

I cannot open the spot above where the leak occurred. It has already been torn up and redone. That's the spot only six inches from that nail hole puncture, so that's been patched already.[/QUOTE]

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