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Old 09-28-2010, 07:08 AM   #91
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My Flat roof project-help!


The following is a list of roof botches. I have a 60 square totally flat, unvented, durolast roof with 7/16 osb deck and 2x8 rafters that span 11.5 ft from bearing wall to bearing wall.

1. thinned out ISO board above the deck. I was supposed to have 3 inches throughout but the contractor thinned out many sections down to 1/4 fanfold underlayment. Those areas now are "cold deck" and unvented.

2. terrible rafter repair. My whole roof structure was "sunken" - that is, most of the rafters were bowed. The contractor didnt want to sister the rafters - the most he would do was "tail" a few rafters - a 2 ft long sister to buttress a rotten end of a rafter. I didnt know it at the time of tearoff, but a sunken structure is a common problem with flat roofs. Yet my contractor saw the bowing and didnt make a peep. Bowed rafters are how ponds are born. Roofers who tell you that tapered insulation are the only way to fix ponds are being dishonest with you and are only trying to hide their laziness or morbid fear of basic carpentry.

3. Improper substrate preparation - this error relates to #1, the thinning of the iso boards. In addition to providing R value above the deck, ISO boards also provide a softer surface for the durolast to lay on. You dont want sharpish projections pushing up against the roof membrane like nailheads, plywood endgrain etc. Some areas on my roof were thinned down right to the wood deck - and beyond. Yes - beyond. All along the perimeter of my roof, a 6 inch wide section of decking was removed in a frantic ultrahack effort to acheive drainage. That whole area is full of sharp knobby feeling areas pushing up taut against the membrane. If I step there, I could damage the membrane - especially after a few years when this stuff gets more brittle. See picture.

4. No venting improvements. There is more than one class of venting. Venting of cold decks is one. Edge venting is another. Even with a warm deck design, edge venting might still be a good idea. It depends on how your flat roof transitions to the walls etc. My flat roof transitions into shingled mansard side roofs - no parapet wall. That mansard roof should have been vented right at the top where it meets the flat. Like half of a ridge vent. It traps so much moisture there that "hoar frost" occurs beneath the deck right at the top.

5. Material incompatibility - PVC membranes are not supposed to touch asphalt. My durolast membrane is full of tar specks all over the place - topside and underside. I can clean off the topside specks but not the ones on the underside. Their was no effort made by my contractor to keep the area free of asphalt debris. Also, where the flat meets the mansard, the durolast overlaps the shingles directly. Shingles are asphalt, same rules apply. There are separator sheets for this purpose but my contractor didnt give a hoot.

There's more, but those are the biggies, and enuf rambling - for now
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:39 AM   #92
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My Flat roof project-help!


wow!!!!. thanks for the detailed reply. very good to know!

how long ago was this? why did you pick such a contractor? or did you? whats a mansard roof? because my flat roof transitions over to a steeper shingle roof
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Old 09-28-2010, 11:29 AM   #93
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for the roof the contractor keeps insisting that i just need a base sheet and the cap =/ so i dont know what to say.
He can insist all he wants, and he'd be right. This is the MINIMUM. Do you want the minimum 10 year roof on your house? Do you want to replace this roof again in 10 years? He's absolutely right it is acceptable, if you want a cheap disposable roof.
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:44 PM   #94
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He can insist all he wants, and he'd be right. This is the MINIMUM. Do you want the minimum 10 year roof on your house? Do you want to replace this roof again in 10 years? He's absolutely right it is acceptable, if you want a cheap disposable roof.
thanks grumpy!! so how do you go about telling a contractor this is what you want instead...

by the way you dont seem so grumpy:P
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:06 AM   #95
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My Flat roof project-help!


Sounds like you also have a mansard roof just like mine - steep and shingled. Hows the venting on yours?

Yeah, its 3 years ago now that I had my reroof yet it still feels like yesterday. Its pretty much been crisis mode here ever since as I struggle to devise workarounds to make the roof last.

The contractor, Roof Management Inc. out of Farmington Hills Michigan, was recommended to me by the Durolast factory sales rep.

Any contractors recommended by a sales rep should be rejected outright. Their interests do not coincide with yours.
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Old 09-29-2010, 03:28 PM   #96
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thanks grumpy!! so how do you go about telling a contractor this is what you want instead...

by the way you dont seem so grumpy:P
Did you already sign the contract? If not you have all the power, if he doesn't want to do what you want; find someone who does. If you already signed the contract for the 10 year roof, and he doesn't want to change the specification, I don;'t have any advice but to call a lawyer if you want to get out of a contract. HOWEVER, I don't know of any contractor who would say no to more work and more profit.

Simply tell the contractor that his proposed specification is for a 10-12 year roof and that you really want something better. Tell him you are willing to pay for a 20 year roof and see what he says. I doubt there will be any argument.


As for me being Grumpy, ask anyone who has worked for me or any colleague whom I have known for years and they will tell you this nice guy routine is an act.
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Old 09-29-2010, 03:31 PM   #97
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Any contractors recommended by a sales rep should be rejected outright. Their interests do not coincide with yours.
I wouldn't necessarily agree, but I do see the logic. I get alot of referrals from one manufacturer in particular, but those leads come from the website.
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Old 09-29-2010, 10:31 PM   #98
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My Flat roof project-help!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Did you already sign the contract? If not you have all the power, if he doesn't want to do what you want; find someone who does. If you already signed the contract for the 10 year roof, and he doesn't want to change the specification, I don;'t have any advice but to call a lawyer if you want to get out of a contract. HOWEVER, I don't know of any contractor who would say no to more work and more profit.

Simply tell the contractor that his proposed specification is for a 10-12 year roof and that you really want something better. Tell him you are willing to pay for a 20 year roof and see what he says. I doubt there will be any argument.


As for me being Grumpy, ask anyone who has worked for me or any colleague whom I have known for years and they will tell you this nice guy routine is an act.
hehehe. i am glad i dont work for you then

i havent signed teh contract yet, but the other roofers i am looking at are even worse i think...so its the least of all evils kind of game. the sales rep himself is real nice; but the rest of the team dont act as patient with all my questions,etc. you are right! i should just tell him i am willing to pay to get a 20yr roof. duh! stupid me... thanks grumpy!
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Old 09-29-2010, 10:32 PM   #99
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My Flat roof project-help!


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Originally Posted by rodeo View Post
Sounds like you also have a mansard roof just like mine - steep and shingled. Hows the venting on yours?

Yeah, its 3 years ago now that I had my reroof yet it still feels like yesterday. Its pretty much been crisis mode here ever since as I struggle to devise workarounds to make the roof last.

The contractor, Roof Management Inc. out of Farmington Hills Michigan, was recommended to me by the Durolast factory sales rep.

Any contractors recommended by a sales rep should be rejected outright. Their interests do not coincide with yours.
i have to agree....sales rep prob has something in it for them to recommend someone....
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Old 09-30-2010, 05:35 AM   #100
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My Flat roof project-help!


Its certainly not true that ALL sales reps are unethical, I probably should have prefaced my earlier comment.

I have spoke with a sales rep from Fibretite who warned me without me asking him first that I could be facing a total tearoff and that recovering is usually a bad idea. He was straight up.

Durolast, on the other hand, has embraced the recover market and pitches it aggressively. It makes up like 3/4 of their market. I was naive enough at that time to fall for their rosy prediction that a recover was a realistic, and therefore much cheaper option.

Your flat roof is 800 sq ft? What are the dimensions and how many penetrations are there? The mod app is probably the cheapest way to go, but I've never messed with it. I have heard that it is doable by the diy types because you dont need to mess around with hot tar kettles but that it still has its tricks and bad installations are very common.
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:53 PM   #101
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in my case its not diy, because they are torching it down to the base sheet. i am not sure of my dimensions actually. what does penetrations mean?
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Old 10-15-2010, 10:54 PM   #102
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ok so i finally paid down the deposit yesturday. what color shingles would be best? or does it not matter?
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:05 PM   #103
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A common color is weatherwood or an Earthtone cedar.What color siding and/or trim do you have?
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:10 PM   #104
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john! thanks for chiming in. my siding is white. but its pretty dirty lol
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:12 PM   #105
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I love a black roof with white siding and black trim,IMO looks really sharp

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