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Old 08-31-2010, 03:13 PM   #61
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My Flat roof project-help!


Most roofers, much less customers have no clue what lifecycle cost means. If they did, it would make my life soooo much easier.

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Old 08-31-2010, 11:32 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Why would you even consider installing a 12 year roof only to go through this hassel again in 12 years? It just doesn't make sense to me, and I lose alot of jobs to the 10-12 year roofers. I wouldn't do less than 15 for my own peace of mind. If it were my house I wouldn't do less than a 20 year.

As for the 12 years you are right... We normally install a double layer of base sheet which is what gives it the extra 3 years, a single layer of base with the granulated cap is a 12 year. Ask about them installing an APP 160 smooth mid ply before installing the granulated cap. This would up the system rating to 20 years.

I once had a potential customer say to me "They can put a man on the moon but can't make a flat roof last longer than 10 years." I said to him "We can make this flat roof last 20 years if you want, but you don't want to pay for it. Remember that putting a man on the moon costs billions of dollars, doubling the life of your roof only costs a few thousand more." When I asked him weeks later why he didn't hire us, he said someone was cheaper. LOL It was the 3rd time he got a new roof since he bought the building. To me, that's the definition of a moron.
lol thanks for the input. i agree with you compltely, but unfortunately with all the other crap i gotta fix in the house, money is tight.
why would the smooth ply last longer? dont you have to put down a coating if its smooth?
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:33 PM   #63
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My Flat roof project-help!


grumpy if you wanna come over you can install my new roof
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Old 09-01-2010, 09:29 PM   #64
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My Flat roof project-help!


I think you are too far away.

Smooth would go on before the granulated, the smooth would not be exposed to the UV. The addition of the smooth to the system would just about double the thickness. If you installed a base sheet, smooth APP 160 and granulated APP 180 you'd qualify for the 20 year no dollar limit warranty (if you were a commercial property). It's still a 20 year roof none the less. It'll cost much less to add those extra 8 years now rather than doing the whole roof over again in 12 years.
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The information found in this post is not to be considered legal advice. All information should be considered relative, not specific. Never attempt any repairs you are not comfortable with. Always maintain safety! The author of this post takes no responsibility for any losses that occur. Use at your own risk.
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Old 09-01-2010, 09:39 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by OldNBroken View Post
Most roofers, much less customers have no clue what lifecycle cost means. If they did, it would make my life soooo much easier.
You are right sir. I always give me customers options to upgrade. Some do understand the life cycle, sometimes I have to explain it and they get it, sometimes I explain it and they are dumb, sometimes I explain it and they refuse to listen.

To many consumers all they hear is "new roof $X". In their mind the cheap crappy 10 year roof is a new roof, and yes it is a new roof but if you are holding onto the property it's usually a stupid decision to buy.

Not picking on the original poster but even in this thread we see that most consumers don't understand life cycle as in the comparing of "epdm to pvc to mod bit." there's so much gray area in that comparison.
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Old 09-02-2010, 05:16 PM   #66
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I was in your shoes federer 3 yrs ago, except I didnt thoroughly research ahead of time enough. Instead, I trusted the durolast factory sales rep to recommend me a contractor. Biggest mistake/fiasco of my life.

You can learn everything on your own researching flat roofs. Grumpy had some good advice. Although a good roof contractor can spec a job properly, most arent good and its hard to tell which are good or arent good.
Even a contractor that has been around for years with a clean BBB record, no lawsuits or license issues etc can still be completely worthless and negligent, like mine was.

I would ask bidders to list and explain examples of shortcuts and bad workmanship. If you get an answer that sounds brief or guarded in any way, well there's your answer ! Ask bidders how they feel about fixing rafters or other structural repairs. Believe it or not, there are roofers who feel that rafters are not part of the roof and will ignore even obvious defects. Same goes for insulation and pond control.
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Old 09-03-2010, 11:42 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
I think you are too far away.

Smooth would go on before the granulated, the smooth would not be exposed to the UV. The addition of the smooth to the system would just about double the thickness. If you installed a base sheet, smooth APP 160 and granulated APP 180 you'd qualify for the 20 year no dollar limit warranty (if you were a commercial property). It's still a 20 year roof none the less. It'll cost much less to add those extra 8 years now rather than doing the whole roof over again in 12 years.
thanks so much for your input. you are right. i didnt realize what you meant at first. so you are saying putting down the smooth PLUS the granular roof to make it last 20yrs. good idea! i didnt think of that. can the rafters and decking support the extra weight?
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Old 09-03-2010, 11:43 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by rodeo View Post
I was in your shoes federer 3 yrs ago, except I didnt thoroughly research ahead of time enough. Instead, I trusted the durolast factory sales rep to recommend me a contractor. Biggest mistake/fiasco of my life.

You can learn everything on your own researching flat roofs. Grumpy had some good advice. Although a good roof contractor can spec a job properly, most arent good and its hard to tell which are good or arent good.
Even a contractor that has been around for years with a clean BBB record, no lawsuits or license issues etc can still be completely worthless and negligent, like mine was.

I would ask bidders to list and explain examples of shortcuts and bad workmanship. If you get an answer that sounds brief or guarded in any way, well there's your answer ! Ask bidders how they feel about fixing rafters or other structural repairs. Believe it or not, there are roofers who feel that rafters are not part of the roof and will ignore even obvious defects. Same goes for insulation and pond control.
you are absolutely right. i cant tell who to trust! a bunch of them completely igonored insulation/ventilation issues.
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Old 09-03-2010, 02:30 PM   #69
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That's because, unfortunately, most roofers out there only know enough to get by. They don't make the time and effort to edumacate themselves on all the peripheral things involved in proper roofing practices.

Occasionally I briefly wish I could be like that. Would make bidding and doing a job so much less complicated. Unfortunately I have this annoying thing they call a reputation I need to maintain.
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Old 09-04-2010, 06:25 PM   #70
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I would talk to roofers/contractors about a 4ply system they hold up the best and unlikely to leak if the roof is properly vented. and you have it warranted for 20+yrs
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Old 09-04-2010, 08:38 PM   #71
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4 ply meaning a torch down system right?
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Old 09-09-2010, 06:36 PM   #72
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Ok so what we are going to go with is
low slope- Ice&water beneath firestone 180 mod bit.
steeper slope-certainteed landmark 30yr fiberglass shingles. with option to add ice&water shield on the shingle side. is that necessary?

also, is $7K a fair price?
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:08 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by federer View Post
Ok so what we are going to go with is
low slope- Ice&water beneath firestone 180 mod bit.
steeper slope-certainteed landmark 30yr fiberglass shingles. with option to add ice&water shield on the shingle side. is that necessary?

also, is $7K a fair price?
Ice and water under mod bit?How do you torch to that?Or am I missing something?Is a nailed base sheet going over Ice and water?If so,Ice and water is not neccesary,they do sell a peel and stick base sheet however.Also I think Ice and water is unnecessary on the entire shingle side,At the eaves and rake edges 4-sure.Price sounds very fair
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:31 PM   #74
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Ice and water under mod bit?How do you torch to that?Or am I missing something?Is a nailed base sheet going over Ice and water?If so,Ice and water is not neccesary,they do sell a peel and stick base sheet however.Also I think Ice and water is unnecessary on the entire shingle side,At the eaves and rake edges 4-sure.Price sounds very fair
thanks for the input. you know what i am not exactly sure myself. here is the quote from proposal:

The installation of Ice and Water Guard in the valleys and on rear low-sloped roof. The installation of aluminum drip edge on the rake and gutter edges. The installation of Firestone #180 modified bitumen 12-year roofing material on flat roof.


am i mistaking what the proposal is saying? no base sheet is mentioned. what does base sheet consist of??
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Old 09-09-2010, 08:17 PM   #75
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thanks for the input. you know what i am not exactly sure myself. here is the quote from proposal:

The installation of Ice and Water Guard in the valleys and on rear low-sloped roof. The installation of aluminum drip edge on the rake and gutter edges. The installation of Firestone #180 modified bitumen 12-year roofing material on flat roof.


am i mistaking what the proposal is saying? no base sheet is mentioned. what does base sheet consist of??
Like Grumpy said on a 12 yr warranty,your base sheet will be a nailed base(either fiberglass or sanded one side and smooth other)this ply is for fire prevention and is not an actual ply.I would go 1 step further and have a midply put down.In my understanding the rear low-sloped section would be where the mod-bit is going,right?If so,then no need for I&W on that piece

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