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Old 12-23-2010, 03:07 PM   #46
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Metal Roof Questions


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Originally Posted by OldNBroken View Post
No, not really, there are a LOT more hacks in this field than competent installers. But it does sound like you have a very reliable contractor and the main thing we stress for ANY roof system is " It's only as good as the person installing it."

We just pointed out some things that we have concerns with..screws, clips, clip spacing. As long as he is there to address any possible issues in the future you have no worries.

Post some finish and detail pics if you feel like it. They are always good for future references on these forums.
No question about the hacks out there! I know it's not advisable to get too many estimates on a project, but I had to interview maybe 18 or 20 contractors just to get a few viable bids. I had to dismiss one after another before they were even out the door. Everything from obvious ignorance of the trade (even I knew more than some, if you can believe it), to used car salesman techniques.

Anyone for some humble pie? Seems I have made some mistakes earlier. I had my memory jogged and there were two kind of screws used up there. I found a few of the others laying about. They look like the real deal. And I'm not certain of the pop rivet material either. They are not magnetic so they could be stainless or aluminum, They are kinda shiny tho, I can't tell.

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Maybe I'll sleep a little better tonite. And I will most certainly post more pics when I can. Gotta lose a little snow first.

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Old 12-23-2010, 03:12 PM   #47
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rivit look like ss,screws for the clip should
have a head like the drill point you showed earlier
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Old 12-23-2010, 03:16 PM   #48
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rivit look like ss,screws for the clip should
have a head like the drill point you showed earlier
How can you tell it's stainless? The sheen? I thought the drill point would evacuate too much wood and reduce the holding power.
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Old 12-23-2010, 04:34 PM   #49
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head not tip on the screw,rivet's just a guess but it looks like a typical ss metal roof trim type
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Old 12-23-2010, 05:36 PM   #50
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Looks like SS to me also. Aluminum will have either aluminum or steel mandrel and that mandrel is SS. Looks like you are fine there. As far as screws, it's all about pullout and shear strength. Regular deck and drywall screws have decent pullout but terrible shear strength. There are many options out there, only way to know is to test it yourself.
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:52 PM   #51
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As for your caulk question. I have little experience with it. Maye use 10-12 tubes a year, sometimes a bit more on counter-flashing. I form my own penetration panels to avoid using it. Where any over-lap, in shingle fashion, I put a bead or two under them to seperate them and short circuit any capilary action. Most any brand will work for that.
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Old 12-23-2010, 07:01 PM   #52
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For instance, scroll down to 'Steel Roof Pipe Collar', 5 photos. http://www.rooferscoffeeshop.com/pho..._list.asp?u=30
We did stop using those collars. GC spec'd those when Oakey quit making the 'Lead-Head' collars.) The ABS are much easier to repair.

In the pix, some caulk was used to seperate the panels.

At my ridges, with boxed panels, no caulk is required, nor used. I use the SS rivets when I need to use rivets.
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Old 12-24-2010, 11:36 AM   #53
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head not tip on the screw,rivet's just a guess but it looks like a typical ss metal roof trim type
DUH! Someday I'll get the hang of this reading comprehension thing. That little funnel shape under the pancake head is a bit too large for the hole in the clip tho, and it keeps the screw from fully seating by about a 32nd. At least it's got a wood thread.
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Old 12-24-2010, 11:51 AM   #54
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Looks like SS to me also. Aluminum will have either aluminum or steel mandrel and that mandrel is SS. Looks like you are fine there. As far as screws, it's all about pullout and shear strength. Regular deck and drywall screws have decent pullout but terrible shear strength. There are many options out there, only way to know is to test it yourself.
I'm pretty well certain that they're SS now too. Do you test for pull out as simply as screwing down the clip and then try to yank it out with a prybar? What about shear strength? Try to just break it off?
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:16 PM   #55
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As for your caulk question. I have little experience with it. Maye use 10-12 tubes a year, sometimes a bit more on counter-flashing. I form my own penetration panels to avoid using it. Where any over-lap, in shingle fashion, I put a bead or two under them to seperate them and short circuit any capilary action. Most any brand will work for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinner666 View Post
For instance, scroll down to 'Steel Roof Pipe Collar', 5 photos. http://www.rooferscoffeeshop.com/pho..._list.asp?u=30
We did stop using those collars. GC spec'd those when Oakey quit making the 'Lead-Head' collars.) The ABS are much easier to repair.

In the pix, some caulk was used to seperate the panels.

At my ridges, with boxed panels, no caulk is required, nor used. I use the SS rivets when I need to use rivets.
Tinner, I checked out your album and that looks like the perfect way to handle the vents. Do you just crimp the ribs of the shingle panel in with those of the adjacent panels? Does the extra thickness cause any difficulties? I'll get some pics of how it was handled on this roof later. They don't look right to me--probably laughable to you guys. No doubt they took the easy way.

What caulk do you prefer to use?
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:22 PM   #56
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Just a quick shout to say thanks and I wish you all the best of Holidays and a prosperous New Year!

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Old 12-24-2010, 12:45 PM   #57
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Tinner, I checked out your album and that looks like the perfect way to handle the vents. Do you just crimp the ribs of the shingle panel in with those of the adjacent panels? Does the extra thickness cause any difficulties? I'll get some pics of how it was handled on this roof later. They don't look right to me--probably laughable to you guys. No doubt they took the easy way.

What caulk do you prefer to use?
I just hand form any panel I need. Look at my copper roof albums, or my website. I have no preference in caulk, except BlackJack Neoprene for EPDM, and counter-flashing, I also use GeoCel for others apps.
I think I figured out what TItebond is. I do a lot of repairs on metal that some monster sticking caulk, usually white that i have to cut loose.

My philosophy is this. If the detail work is lacking, NO amount of caulk will last long term. If all the detail work is spot-on, Elmers will be fine.

Here's an underside view of my box-folded panels.
The next pic is tin, but the panels were extended full lenght past the sky-light eliminating the corners No solder or caulk needed on my corners.
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:52 PM   #58
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24 ga, Steel Chimney panel. You can see how the field panels were cut on the right, then on the left is a filed formed side panel.

I have no understanding of cutting a field panel flush with a penetration. How can caulk perform like an uncut panel?
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Old 12-24-2010, 01:04 PM   #59
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Now, before we locked that panel to the left side, we ran about 4 beads of caulk across the bottom. It's only purpose is to short-circuit capilary action. Sometimes, we just make skinny, or wider panels to go in front of apenetration, corner to corner, box fold them in place and completely eliminate the caulk issue entirely. Like this. A dab of gutter sealer was used in the fold just to keep any moisture from getting in and freezing, as unlikely as that sounds. About 1-1,000,000 chance.

And sometimes like this, and solder the very bottom, inside of corner.
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Old 12-24-2010, 01:08 PM   #60
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As you can see, there are many ways. Some are right, some are wrong. Some of my methods are still evolving.

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