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Old 12-22-2010, 02:12 PM   #31
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Metal Roof Questions


well there's whats called a ''stitch screw''basically a hex headed drill point sheet metal screw with a grommeted head
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:58 PM   #32
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well there's whats called a ''stitch screw''basically a hex headed drill point sheet metal screw with a grommeted head
I found images online for the stitch screws. Looks like they would do a much better job even if somewhat more unsightly.
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Old 12-22-2010, 05:18 PM   #33
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Metal Roof Questions


I most often do the learned, As for the expected, I reverse the last hem, or cut it off to accept cleats every 8-10" up the rake.

( As for cleat pecs? Man will allow 4' center with 24 ga. steel.) They have to be closer for the floating system your crew used. The cleats hold the panels above the roof creating an air-space between the panels and the underlay.
When you walk on a roof installed like that, at 2' center for the cleats, it feels like you're walking on matresses. First time I ever stepped on one, I thought the deck had disintergrated! Big dummy!

BTW, my 'Metal Details' album will give some idea f how the skylights should have been done. That crew didn't have a clue. http://www.rooferscoffeeshop.com/pho..._list.asp?u=30

Feel free to browse any of my albums at that link. I haven't been able to edit th albums there in 3 years.

Because we have stormy weather here, I ALWAYS 'box-fold' the panel ends to form a permanent water proof barrier behind the z bar. Wind blows any water past those, and it runs over the ends of the panels, wanders down the underlay looking for ways to create mischief.
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Old 12-22-2010, 05:21 PM   #34
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The rivets are painted to match the roof, a nice touch I thought. I'm not sure, but I believe they are aluminum which, in itself, is problematic. If indeed aluminum and installed in the steel roof I suspect they will corrode away before they get a chance to be cut thru.

What do you use in these instances?
As the roofer would say..."Who cares???? It'll be out of warranty anyway and I'll have my money. I'll just go back, quote a price, and fix it and make more money."
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Old 12-22-2010, 08:57 PM   #35
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We use thousands of rivets on our jobs. Yes they are an acceptable "exposed fastener". Only type we will ever use is 43 and 44 stainless with stainless mandrel. They have the highest shear strength and pull power. Aluminum rivets are extremely weak and too soft for roofing. SS rivets are more permanent than stitch screws and look much better. Your second .pdf is an eave detail, not a rake detail. Your first .pdf is along the same lines as we use for standing seam. (nice work on the cad btw, I'm jealous)

Unless specs and details were a part of your contract, you hired this contractor to put on a metal roof how he decides to put it on. You just have to wait and see if you have problems with it in the future and deal with it then. You hired him to install it his way, not ours. Unfortunately too many people think all metal roofs are the same and anyone can put them on. If this installer has a decent history, odds are you will be fine and you will get what you paid for. I have a feeling you wish you had taken this crash course prior to beginning the project though.
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:32 PM   #36
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i don't know,you hire someone it should be done to ''industry standard''
which that gable detail is not,i'd make him fix it before i pay him
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:34 PM   #37
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i don't know,you hire someone it should be done to ''industry standard''
which that gable detail is not,i'd make him fix it before i pay him
We both know the majority of installers are clueless to industry standards. So they put it on how they see fit. Doesn't this, then, make that the "industry standard"??
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:57 AM   #38
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i guess you got me there onb
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:38 AM   #39
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I most often do the learned, As for the expected, I reverse the last hem, or cut it off to accept cleats every 8-10" up the rake.

( As for cleat pecs? Man will allow 4' center with 24 ga. steel.) They have to be closer for the floating system your crew used. The cleats hold the panels above the roof creating an air-space between the panels and the underlay.
When you walk on a roof installed like that, at 2' center for the cleats, it feels like you're walking on matresses. First time I ever stepped on one, I thought the deck had disintergrated! Big dummy!

BTW, my 'Metal Details' album will give some idea f how the skylights should have been done. That crew didn't have a clue. http://www.rooferscoffeeshop.com/pho..._list.asp?u=30

Feel free to browse any of my albums at that link. I haven't been able to edit th albums there in 3 years.

Because we have stormy weather here, I ALWAYS 'box-fold' the panel ends to form a permanent water proof barrier behind the z bar. Wind blows any water past those, and it runs over the ends of the panels, wanders down the underlay looking for ways to create mischief.
Yes cleats up the rake would be far better than depending on the trim to hold it down. Nice!

Very perceptive tinner, the sliding part of the cleat is actually an eighth of an inch taller than the panel height. Although, I think that the slider would gouge into the underlayment and deck as they move with the panels, no? There is no sponginess when walked on, but that's probably due to the cleat spacing.

No box folds here, as you saw. But they did fill any voids around the z mould with their 'wonder caulk'. It's made by Titebond for metal roofs. Have you guys seen this stuff before? They swear by it.

Name:  TiteBondCaulkBox.jpg
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Yep, it seems like these guys did a lot more work and used a lot more material than necessary on the skylights. Looks like it is designed to keep the water away from the curb instead of out of the curb. I'm not saying it's done right, but I think it should work as long as the wonder caulk holds up.

Metal Roof Questions-skylight_z.jpg
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Metal Roof Questions-skylighthead.jpg
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:47 AM   #40
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As the roofer would say..."Who cares???? It'll be out of warranty anyway and I'll have my money. I'll just go back, quote a price, and fix it and make more money."
Well at least he is standing behind his work 100%. His warrantee on workmanship is the same as the manufacturer's warrantee on the material, and that's 50 years. Although my research indicates his company has been in business nearly twenty years, I'm more concerned with 'out of business' more so than 'out of warrantee'. Perhaps a bit of false confidence on my part but I guess only time will tell.
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:09 PM   #41
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At least that is a very good caulk they used. Caulk should never be used as the primary sealant all on it's own. Did I miss a pictures? I don't see how they flashed the skylights except for the small details you showed. Got pics of the finished rake and eave?
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:24 PM   #42
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We use thousands of rivets on our jobs. Yes they are an acceptable "exposed fastener". Only type we will ever use is 43 and 44 stainless with stainless mandrel. They have the highest shear strength and pull power. Aluminum rivets are extremely weak and too soft for roofing. SS rivets are more permanent than stitch screws and look much better. Your second .pdf is an eave detail, not a rake detail. Your first .pdf is along the same lines as we use for standing seam. (nice work on the cad btw, I'm jealous)

Unless specs and details were a part of your contract, you hired this contractor to put on a metal roof how he decides to put it on. You just have to wait and see if you have problems with it in the future and deal with it then. You hired him to install it his way, not ours. Unfortunately too many people think all metal roofs are the same and anyone can put them on. If this installer has a decent history, odds are you will be fine and you will get what you paid for. I have a feeling you wish you had taken this crash course prior to beginning the project though.
No doubt stainless would be the best. If I had done it myself, I would probably have used SS for all the fasteners, it's just the way I am. It's what I used when I installed the fascia.

I suppose a detailed, book length contract would have been better for all. He did do it his way and he assures me that all things I am concerned with are how he puts down all his metal roofs, and he has "never had a problem". His references are all glowing and all his certificates seemed to be in order. I would like to think this roof will outlast me.

Excuse my ignorance, but I'm not sure what you mean about my second PDF being an eave detail. And thanks, I just love drawing on the computer. If you need anything done, let me know. It's the least I could do to return the favors.

I spent countless hours doing research on this project thru various means. Seriously, it took me nearly seven months to decide who to hire. And yes, I wish I knew then what I have learned thru this crash course, but it's tough task to ask a question you don't yet have.

Last edited by mem; 12-23-2010 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:37 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble View Post
i don't know,you hire someone it should be done to ''industry standard''
which that gable detail is not,i'd make him fix it before i pay him
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNBroken View Post
We both know the majority of installers are clueless to industry standards. So they put it on how they see fit. Doesn't this, then, make that the "industry standard"??
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble View Post
i guess you got me there onb
You guys ARE joking, right?
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:08 PM   #44
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You guys ARE joking, right?
No, not really, there are a LOT more hacks in this field than competent installers. But it does sound like you have a very reliable contractor and the main thing we stress for ANY roof system is " It's only as good as the person installing it."

We just pointed out some things that we have concerns with..screws, clips, clip spacing. As long as he is there to address any possible issues in the future you have no worries.

Post some finish and detail pics if you feel like it. They are always good for future references on these forums.
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:22 PM   #45
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At least that is a very good caulk they used. Caulk should never be used as the primary sealant all on it's own. Did I miss a pictures? I don't see how they flashed the skylights except for the small details you showed. Got pics of the finished rake and eave?
They tell me when this caulk is cured, and then the metal pieces are pulled apart, the caulk will actually rip before it separates from the metal.

The skylights:

Head flashing is installed against the curb.
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Z mould is installed in a bed of caulk a couple of inches from the curb and screwed down on the other three sides. There is no metal flashing against the curb here, only the Wintergard HT turned up under the skylight gasket.
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Metal Roof Questions-skylight_z_2.jpg

The final pieces are L shaped with the lower leg folded under like a J to slide over the Z. The top leg of the L is then tucked up under the rubber gasket of the skylight.
Name:  Skylight_L_install.jpg
Views: 51
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A single pop rivet is located in each corner.
Metal Roof Questions-skylighthead.jpg

I'll have the finished rake and eave pics shortly.
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