Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Roofing/Siding

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-21-2010, 10:51 PM   #16
mem
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 224
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Metal Roof Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble View Post
''joggle cleat''is one manufacturers name for a z shape piece that trims and pans get locked in to

first clip should be no more than 6'' from the end of the panel,1 screw per bracket
Tom, is this the "joggle cleat"? They called them "Z" mould. They are 26 ga and used to secure the ridge cap and to flash the skylights. Note the nice protective film, I wonder how much of that they forgot the remove!

Name:  %22z%22mould.jpg
Views: 109
Size:  33.7 KB
Name:  RidgeCapInProgress.jpg
Views: 487
Size:  72.2 KB
Name:  SkylightFlashingInProgress.jpg
Views: 157
Size:  32.4 KB

The first clips are no where near the ends of the panel.

Name:  NoEndCleat.jpg
Views: 435
Size:  79.9 KB


Last edited by mem; 12-21-2010 at 10:55 PM.
mem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 11:46 PM   #17
mem
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 224
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Metal Roof Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNBroken View Post
Yes, only need two screws per clip, but what type of screw did they use? Yes, that clip is the weak link in your system.
Regardless of the system or clip placement in the field, it is standard practice to put one clip <6" from eave and ridge and the next clip within 24" of that clip. In the field 36-42" is usually comfortable.

As I said about your eave detail. It would be nice if more installers would put a little more into their details but, unfortunately the majority either don't know how or don't care.
OldNBroken, here is a shot of the screws they used, looks like #8's.

Name:  ScrewsUsedOnRoof.jpg
Views: 108
Size:  27.2 KB

The foto in my last post shows no clips anywhere near 24" from the end, let alone 6". These fotos show how they spaced the clips in the field. In the second one, the first two clips look like they're 8 or 9 feet apart.

Metal Roof Questions-panelcleatspacing.jpg
Metal Roof Questions-panelcleatspacing_2.jpg

I appreciate all your help guys, I'll have more questions tomorrow-getting sleepy.
mem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 12:18 AM   #18
Doing This Way Too Long
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 1,158
Rewards Points: 520
Default

Metal Roof Questions


Am glad you didn't show us a picture of deck screws or something with no shear strength otherwise your roof may have looked like this...
I didn't know this was a metal deck they were going over.
Attached Thumbnails
Metal Roof Questions-rhs.jpg  

Last edited by OldNBroken; 12-22-2010 at 12:21 AM.
OldNBroken is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to OldNBroken For This Useful Post:
Tom Struble (12-22-2010)
Old 12-22-2010, 08:13 AM   #19
Member
 
Tom Struble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: west milford n.j.
Posts: 2,785
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Metal Roof Questions


no thats a z closeure,i probably shouldn't have used the term as it may just be specific to one particular manu.Those drill point screws are generally used for attaching the clips to metal framing,i wonder if having a drill point reduces the holding power in roof sheathing?

Last edited by Tom Struble; 12-22-2010 at 08:16 AM.
Tom Struble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 09:06 AM   #20
mem
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 224
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Metal Roof Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble View Post
no thats a z closeure,i probably shouldn't have used the term as it may just be specific to one particular manu.Those drill point screws are generally used for attaching the clips to metal framing,i wonder if having a drill point reduces the holding power in roof sheathing?
OK Tom, I got off my butt and googled joggle cleat, and now it's clear. Looks like they would especially be used to attach the panels in the valleys.

Good point on the screws, no pun intended. Moreover, the threads are not cut very deep like you would find on a wood screw either. That's bothersome.
mem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 09:09 AM   #21
mem
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 224
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Metal Roof Questions


Holy Moly on the wind damage! I hope that's not in my future.
mem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 09:22 AM   #22
Doing This Way Too Long
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 1,158
Rewards Points: 520
Default

Metal Roof Questions


That's why I asked about the deck because those are metal screws. Wood screws have a much courser thread. Min we use is #12

This was a combination of clip failure and half the clips were installed with drywall screws. some of the clips at the perimeter were intact but straightened out vertically by the wind getting under the panel.

Last edited by OldNBroken; 12-22-2010 at 09:24 AM.
OldNBroken is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 09:37 AM   #23
mem
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 224
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Metal Roof Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNBroken View Post
That's why I asked about the deck because those are metal screws. Wood screws have a much courser thread. Min we use is #12

This was a combination of clip failure and half the clips were installed with drywall screws. some of the clips at the perimeter were intact but straightened out vertically by the wind getting under the panel.
No, it's not a metal deck. All brand new OSB installed by them, 7/16" on 16" centers. I went with the 26 ga instead of the 24 ga because the panels were going on a solid deck.

The screw holes in the clips are nearly a quarter inch in diameter and could easily accommodate a #12 screw.

Last edited by mem; 12-22-2010 at 10:04 AM.
mem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 10:23 AM   #24
Member
 
Tom Struble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: west milford n.j.
Posts: 2,785
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Metal Roof Questions


clip spacing may also have a part in the oil canning,but i'd want the clips space way closer and accept the oil can

usually after the finish weathers somewhat,it usually becomes less noticeable,the caveat is as long as the metal isn't kinked which i believe could eventually crack over time
Tom Struble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 10:25 AM   #25
mem
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 224
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Metal Roof Questions


OK OldNBroken, now I'm getting scared. Now let's see if I can get a full blown coronary! Am I understanding proper rake treatment?

This drawing illustrates how I expected the rake detail to be handled.

ExpectedRakeEdgeDetail.pdf

And I learned from this site that this detail is fully acceptable as well, if not preferred.

LearnedRakeEdgeDetail.pdf

But, alas, this is how it was ultimately done.

AsInstalledRakeEdgeDetail.pdf

Seems to me that the protection afforded by the standing seam concept has been eliminated at every rake. Also, as on the drip edge, there is no continuous (wind?) cleat installed.
mem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 10:33 AM   #26
Member
 
Tom Struble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: west milford n.j.
Posts: 2,785
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Metal Roof Questions


....wow...that ain't right

yea typically the eave detail is not used on a screw down ''corrugated'' type panel,but on a standing seam panel its the standard detail

Last edited by Tom Struble; 12-22-2010 at 10:38 AM.
Tom Struble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 10:45 AM   #27
mem
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 224
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Metal Roof Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble View Post
....wow...that ain't right
I presume you are referring to the AsInstalled drawing Tom.

What's your take on the other three methods? Are any or all acceptable in your book?

How do you treat the rake detail?
mem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 12:16 PM   #28
mem
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 224
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Metal Roof Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble View Post
....wow...that ain't right

yea typically the eave detail is not used on a screw down ''corrugated'' type panel,but on a standing seam panel its the standard detail
Yes, mine is 180 degree, mechanically crimped standing seam with "no exposed fasteners". I suppose the visible pop rivets they used to secure the ridge cap and skylight flashings are not "exposed fasteners". Say what?!?

Are pop rivets even feasible to use up there?
mem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 12:43 PM   #29
Member
 
Tom Struble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: west milford n.j.
Posts: 2,785
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Metal Roof Questions


id say either method that leaves the pan intact and fold around and locks in to a trim is as good as it gets

the rivets are sometimes necessary on exposed trims but they are usually made from stainless steel,care needs to be taken tho,as the trims move Ive seen them actually cut right thru rivets and back out screws
That's why an annual inspection is a good idea

metal roof if done right can give many years of trouble free service,done wrong they can be ''impossible'' to fix
Tom Struble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 01:34 PM   #30
mem
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 224
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Metal Roof Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble View Post
id say either method that leaves the pan intact and fold around and locks in to a trim is as good as it gets

the rivets are sometimes necessary on exposed trims but they are usually made from stainless steel,care needs to be taken tho,as the trims move Ive seen them actually cut right thru rivets and back out screws
That's why an annual inspection is a good idea

metal roof if done right can give many years of trouble free service,done wrong they can be ''impossible'' to fix
The rivets are painted to match the roof, a nice touch I thought. I'm not sure, but I believe they are aluminum which, in itself, is problematic. If indeed aluminum and installed in the steel roof I suspect they will corrode away before they get a chance to be cut thru.

What do you use in these instances?

mem is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shed Roof Questions jobondur Roofing/Siding 1 10-04-2010 10:52 AM
corrugated metal or standing seam for irregular roof? nicole21 Roofing/Siding 6 09-08-2010 02:58 PM
Metal Roof Estimate supton Off Topic 5 04-17-2010 03:08 PM
questions about wood shake roof oraph Roofing/Siding 4 10-26-2006 05:10 AM
Metal versus Traditional Shingle Roof 4powells Building & Construction 2 04-28-2005 09:40 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.