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Old 06-02-2013, 11:36 AM   #1
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Metal roof and hardieplank siding


I recently had a double standing seam acrylic coated galvalume roof installed on my new house. There were a couple hiccups during the installation (see Rain during roof installation - problems to anticipate outside and in... if you are so inclined) but aside from a minor leak around a skylight everything seems to have come out okay.

Inspecting the roof yesterday I noticed that the roofers had cut beneath the hardieplank siding to slide the metal beneath. I understand that this was to keep rain from getting into the wall under the siding but there is a gap left between the metal and the hardieplank leaving the bottom edge of the siding exposed...

(see attached photo)

Might this present any future problems - water, pests, etc, and if so what would be the best way to remedy it?
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Old 06-02-2013, 11:53 AM   #2
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Shouldn't be an issue. That is the outcorner and the sheathing should be tight behind that.

Paint the cut edge to prevent any rot.

It does look a bit sloppy though.

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Old 06-02-2013, 12:28 PM   #3
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Metal roof and hardieplank siding


Not bad could have been better.
Hardee needs to be at least 2" away from the roof.
Yours looks close enough it should not be a problum.
But as mentioned that bottom edge must be painted or it will fall apart.
I would have done it before running the flashing so there would be no need for masking.
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:51 PM   #4
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Metal roof and hardieplank siding


Thanks much for all the input.

Do you all think this is something that would be reasonable for me to request from my roofer to follow up on (given that I already have the paint)?

I can probably just do it myself but I'm a bit more hesitant since it's up on the roof...
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Old 06-02-2013, 03:01 PM   #5
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Metal roof and hardieplank siding


I only see one picture, and in that picture I see:

1. A vent stack is located centered on a rib. This makes no sense. Either the stack should have been moved, or the panel layout should have been adjusted to make the vent fall in the middle of a panel.

2. There is no separate counter flashing where the metal roof meets the rising wall. There should have been, IMHO.

3. The height of the ribs is really minimal. It should be 1.5 inches minimum.

General: If you have ANY leaks in a new metal roof something is wrong. It should not leak at all. Metal roofs are usually tight from day 1, or leak from day 1.
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Old 06-02-2013, 04:29 PM   #6
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Thanks for pointing out all of this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagans View Post
I only see one picture, and in that picture I see:

1. A vent stack is located centered on a rib. This makes no sense. Either the stack should have been moved, or the panel layout should have been adjusted to make the vent fall in the middle of a panel.

2. There is no separate counter flashing where the metal roof meets the rising wall. There should have been, IMHO.

3. The height of the ribs is really minimal. It should be 1.5 inches minimum.

General: If you have ANY leaks in a new metal roof something is wrong. It should not leak at all. Metal roofs are usually tight from day 1, or leak from day 1.
1) I'm not sure why that stack wasn't moved - if it was going to be however it would have need to have been towards the wall since I intend to have a solar array installed atop this portion of the roof in the next few weeks. Now that you mention this however I'm worried that the low profile static vent to the right of the stack might impede on the panel array.

2) Would the counter flashing be something akin to a metal strip placed in the gap between the roof (googling "metal roof counter flashing" gives me varied results) - and (as with painting the bottom edge of the hardieplank) is this something that would be reasonable to ask the roofer to add?

3) I'd have to get up on the roof to measure the ribs - I've found some resources online that say 1" for a double standing seam is sufficient however regardless at this point I'm probably stuck with the seams as is.

The leak occurred before the roof was installed - I live in Austin, TX and we were on the outer edge of the weather system that hit last weekend. The underlayer was down however and the only portion of the roof that leaked was around a skylight - my roofer came out the following day and repaired the leak.
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Old 06-02-2013, 04:52 PM   #7
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Don't do a lot of metal eh Jagans?

Seam heights vary from flat lock up to 2 3/8".
Doesn't matter where penetrations land, one just has to flash them appropriately.
The wall is a different story. Sloping jamb closure would have been the proper flashing. Can't really tell what they did. It may not be an issue but it's not how I would do it. Did they just shove the panel leg behind the siding and call it good?
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNBroken View Post
Don't do a lot of metal eh Jagans?

Seam heights vary from flat lock up to 2 3/8".
Doesn't matter where penetrations land, one just has to flash them appropriately.
The wall is a different story. Sloping jamb closure would have been the proper flashing. Can't really tell what they did. It may not be an issue but it's not how I would do it. Did they just shove the panel leg behind the siding and call it good?
No, but I fail a lot of them that are done wrong and leak.

Yes, you can flash a pipe going through a rib, but why not move the pipe if you can?

I will not argue rib height, other than to say that with a standing seam roof, with the exception of a standing seam double lock copper roof, I would not go lower than 1.5 inches. Just my opinion from what Ive seen work. Im not sure what the OP means by double standing seam, but I guarantee its not a double lock seam in steel. Only Butler does that in steel with their MR-24.

The wall flashing is wrong, or I should say missing. The panel is going to move under the siding. There needs to be a separate counter flashing.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:07 PM   #9
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I did mean to write double lock standing seam roof - and that is the roof that I had installed.

Apologies in advance for the incredibly noob question I'm about to throw out but would the counter flashing be installed beneath the cut of the hardieplank (almost a mirror image of the flashing currently behind the siding in the picture)?

If so, in addition to painting the bottom cut of the siding, would it be advisable to request that my roofer add counter flashing as well (can it be added after the fact)...

In short - what needs to be done to remedy this issue?

On a separate note: what should I expect will be involved if I need to move the low profile static box vent to the adjacent side of the garage roof (the picture I posted is of the south side of the garage roof that is currently designated for a solar array)?

Thanks!!!

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Old 06-03-2013, 04:52 AM   #10
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Like Jagans said, poor layout on the panels to start with as it pertains to missing that penetration.

That is the beauty of metal, if it doesn't leak during the first storm, it shouldn't leak down the road.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allbread View Post
I did mean to write double lock standing seam roof - and that is the roof that I had installed.

Apologies in advance for the incredibly noob question I'm about to throw out but would the counter flashing be installed beneath the cut of the hardieplank (almost a mirror image of the flashing currently behind the siding in the picture)?

If so, in addition to painting the bottom cut of the siding, would it be advisable to request that my roofer add counter flashing as well (can it be added after the fact)...

In short - what needs to be done to remedy this issue?

On a separate note: what should I expect will be involved if I need to move the low profile static box vent to the adjacent side of the garage roof (the picture I posted is of the south side of the garage roof that is currently designated for a solar array)?

Thanks!!!
Well, at this point, nothing. I was basically stating what I saw in your picture that I did not like from an installation standpoint. The problem with metal is that once its installed, especially if it is double locked like you say it is, it is hell to take apart. Lets look at each issue I brought up a little deeper, and I am sorry if I freaked you out.

Wall flashing: Metal panels move quite a bit with temperature change, but steel moves at about half the rate that Aluminum does, so thats in your favor. You also have a light colored roof which will reflect the heat, and decrease the Delta T, and therefore the amount of movement. The length of your panels is really short compared to what I am used to, so movement should be minimal.

Stack located on rib. The stack is at the top of the panel run, so you could simply have your roofer install a flat sheet that locked to the lower panel and turned over the ridge. The fact is that if I found this on a metal roof during a roof survey, I would look very close at everything, because it is an indication of lack of forethought, and where I find something like this, I usually find more things that are questionable. As ONB says, you can flash over a rib. But why in the world would you want to?

Low profile Vent: Im not sure what this is for, but it would have been better to take it out the gable end, if possible.

Solar Array: You said your roof is Painted Galvalume. Galvalume is a coating applied to steel. Steel is Mostly Iron. Iron rusts.

The installation of a solar array on this roof could easily scratch the living hell out of the finish, so I would be concerned about the level of protection employed by the solar contractor. As I said previously, metal has to be allowed to move, so how the solar array is supported is important. I think ONB and Tinner can help you more here, because they are probably used to installing roofs with much shorter panel runs than I am used to, with much less panel movement.
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Old 06-03-2013, 01:51 PM   #12
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Here is one way to allow movement at the rising wall.
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:42 PM   #13
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Jagan's detail is one good sloping jamb closure. The main point is you need to allow the panel to move freely. At the length of those panels there won't be any structural issues but since it's a smooth panel it's going to have more pronounced oil-canning on a hot day. Not really a great detail there for standing snow or wind-driven rain though.

As far as the penetrations, if it's in the field a doghouse is ideal. As said above, if it's close to the ridge you can incorporate it into the ridge. I have better examples but here's a few. I just don't feel like searching two hard drives for more appropriate ones.

For the record, the brown roof is not mine. We had to go fix a whole bunch of installation issues, including about every penetration on the 900 square roof.
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Metal roof and hardieplank siding-2012-10-27-10.56.36.jpg   Metal roof and hardieplank siding-100_0350.jpg  

Last edited by OldNBroken; 06-03-2013 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNBroken View Post
Jagan's detail is one good sloping jamb closure. The main point is you need to allow the panel to move freely. At the length of those panels there won't be any structural issues but since it's a smooth panel it's going to have more pronounced oil-canning on a hot day. Not really a great detail there for standing snow or wind-driven rain though.

As far as the penetrations, if it's in the field a doghouse is ideal. As said above, if it's close to the ridge you can incorporate it into the ridge. I have better examples but here's a few. I just don't feel like searching two hard drives for more appropriate ones.

For the record, the brown roof is not mine. We had to go fix a whole bunch of installation issues, including about every penetration on the 900 square roof.
Re: Detail and snow. He lives in Texas.

Brown Roof: I was going to comment on the brown roof. Its going to leak through the vertical seams in the panels behind the surface mount flashing at the top. It looks good though


Yeah I see what you mean re flashing. WHy the heck did they flash those boots to the old rain collars instead of the pipes? Some guys just dont get it.

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