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-   -   Mansard roof drip edge flashing rusted (http://www.diychatroom.com/f9/mansard-roof-drip-edge-flashing-rusted-182812/)

Dirtroad72 06-30-2013 08:30 PM

Mansard roof drip edge flashing rusted
 
I recently bought a 1975 built by Rutenberg home with a mansard roof on the central west coast of Florida. Previous homeowners changed the garage to a playroom and added another garage, re-roofing over both sections with asphalt coated roof roll. Under that there is some kind of fiber insulation board that looks like sandy dirt when it's wet. I believe it's 12 years old. The main section of the roof appears to be large sections of a fiber reinforced material that's been painted over with a rubbery substance. I have no idea how old it is and it's not looking fantastic, but there are no leaks in the surface. My building inspector gave the roof an estimate of 3 -5 years - haha.
I just removed a massive, seven 4x12 panel solar pool heating system off of the main section and patched a small section over the garage where it meets the house. Water was running down the block wall between the garage and master bath and luckily headed in the direction of the garage. The patch is working, but I have leaks all around the edges of the flat roof which I've determined are a result of rusted drip edge flashing. The worst leaks are near where the solar panels were and all around the newer roof area over the garage. The shingles are in good shape, with very little wear other than in some areas of discoloration below the rusted flashings and no lifting anywhere that I could find.
My question is, can I peel back the flat roof material, replace the flashing in the rusty areas, then re-adhere the flat roof? Or maybe replace those sections of the flat roofing with new asphalt roll? (The flashing looks like what they sell at HD, listed as Gibralter 6" x 2 1/2" x 10ft galvanized steel eave drip edge.) I'm pretty sure I'll need to replace some wood in one of the areas, since we've been up in the crawl space checking the inside, so I also would like to know what can be used to replace the fiber insulation board - does that material still exist?
I got one estimate to replace the whole roof and $15,000 just isn't in my budget right now. (By my measurements, it's 38 squares of flat roof and 25 of shingle.) As a matter of fact $1,000+ of repairs isn't in my budget either, which is why I'm asking if this would be ok to do to extend the life of my roof for a few more years. I have yet to call anyone to ask about repairs because I'd like to know if this can be done before I start calling the thieves (aka Florida contractors) around here for estimates. Don't get me started on the local landscapers and pool services...

joecaption 07-01-2013 07:49 AM

Going to have to post some pictures.

PatChap 07-01-2013 08:03 AM

Just one thing, 15000 would be very, very low for 38sq of flat and 25 shingle, especially mansard pitch. In my area even, I would imagine Florida would be much higher.
Would need pictures of the area. If the drip is just surface rusty, but the roof is still well adhered to it its probably not the issue.

Dirtroad72 07-02-2013 06:29 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Sorry, I would have posted pics with the first post except I don't fancy taking my camera out in the rain and it's still pouring down today. Here's a cell phone shot taken a few months ago where you can see the roof style and an area of rusted flashing. Also found these other shots taken by my daughter before we moved the pool heater.

It's mainly not the drip surface of the flashing that's rusty; it's the flat edge up under the roofing material. When I first looked at it, I thought it was just lifting a little and I'd be able to use a tube of roof patch to fill it and stick it back down. After a closer look, in some places it's completely rusted out with nothing holding it down to the wood underneath.

Can you please explain why it would be more than 15K? Not sure I understand the difficulty of the flat roof and the mansard pitch.

1985gt 07-02-2013 12:21 PM

The flat roof anyway looks to be to far gone to "repair" 15k is a low amount for the flat roof alone depending on what system and tear off ect.

IMO, start budgeting for a new roof, replacing the drip edge at this point isn't a main concern, getting a proper roof installed is.

Dirtroad72 07-05-2013 05:46 PM

1985GT, I don't think your answer is very helpful. How do you think that it's "too far gone" just by looking at the top side picture and not actually getting inside to check? I do not have the money for a whole new roof - it's not going to happen unless it falls out of the sky, although I've tried repeatedly to win the HGTV dream home - haha - so I have to make the best of what I CAN do.

Since I last posted, I've been all throughout the crawl space - it's 4' up there - inspected very slowly since the temps are down with the rain - and there is not a drop of water coming through anywhere in the flat portion - only at the edges where the flashing is rusted. There are 3 spots that are urgently in need of repair at this point. I'll need to replace some of the plywood on the mansard pitch in those areas. Truly, I don't see the point of replacing the areas that aren't showing any signs of leaking, although it would be great to have a whole new roof. It's not in the budget and I need to fix the problems I have right now. So again, is it doable to peel back the edge, replace the flashing and stick it back down? And if so, would I be able to use roof cement to stick it back down? If not, what would be a better repair procedure?

jagans 07-05-2013 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtroad72 (Post 1212044)
1985GT, I don't think your answer is very helpful. How do you think that it's "too far gone" just by looking at the top side picture and not actually getting inside to check? I do not have the money for a whole new roof - it's not going to happen unless it falls out of the sky, although I've tried repeatedly to win the HGTV dream home - haha - so I have to make the best of what I CAN do.

Since I last posted, I've been all throughout the crawl space - it's 4' up there - inspected very slowly since the temps are down with the rain - and there is not a drop of water coming through anywhere in the flat portion - only at the edges where the flashing is rusted. There are 3 spots that are urgently in need of repair at this point. I'll need to replace some of the plywood on the mansard pitch in those areas. Truly, I don't see the point of replacing the areas that aren't showing any signs of leaking, although it would be great to have a whole new roof. It's not in the budget and I need to fix the problems I have right now. So again, is it doable to peel back the edge, replace the flashing and stick it back down? And if so, would I be able to use roof cement to stick it back down? If not, what would be a better repair procedure?

Because 1985gt knows a low slope roof that is shot when he sees one.

He is correct. Your roof is shot. You have to tear everything off to the deck, repair the deck, re-insulate, and re-roof. You should use tapered insulation to get the water off the roof and where I you, I would use a fully adhered thermoplastic like Sarnafil or Fibertite, or Black EPDM with a white Acrylic coating.

I suspect that the base sheet nailed to the deck is currently keeping the water out. Plan on 5 to 7 bucks a square foot.

Dirtroad72 07-06-2013 07:19 AM

Well, thanks guys. I still don't buy it that the roof is "shot". You see, we actually cut through the material on the deck and I know everything under the top layer is completely dry, including the fiber insulation board, which is ABOVE the base sheet. It was extremely difficult to un-stick both the shingles on the pitch and the flat roof adjacent to the area we patched. AGAIN, it's the drip edge flashing that is rusted and leaking down into the mansard pitch area. I cannot buy a whole new roof right now. I'll be keeping up a PMS on this house, so I'll be on top of anything that comes up after I fix it. I grew up in a 200+ year old home in upstate NY. We didn't replace every darned thing that wasn't perfect and somehow the place is still standing. I also put patches on my favorite jeans and keep wearing them. It's called conservationism - most people don't do it anymore. If anyone can give me some advice regarding REPAIRing this, I'd really appreciate it. Maybe someone from Florida?

AndyWRS 07-06-2013 07:32 PM

You could probably find someone to repair it, but they wont warranty the work.

Sounds like its just rolled roofing, at first glance i thought it was modbit. You were acutally given the correct advice already, but i am 100% sure some hack will love to take your hard earned money. Patching stuff like that usually ends up in posting on a diy forum asking how do i fix this.

Home inspection even mention anything about the roof?

jagans 07-07-2013 08:54 PM

You may want to have an RRC perform an infrared moisture survey on the roof. Maybe it looks way worse than it actually is. Is it soft under foot? Where did you cut the roof? Can you show us in your picture?

1985gt 07-08-2013 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtroad72 (Post 1212044)
1985GT, I don't think your answer is very helpful. How do you think that it's "too far gone" just by looking at the top side picture and not actually getting inside to check? I do not have the money for a whole new roof - it's not going to happen unless it falls out of the sky, although I've tried repeatedly to win the HGTV dream home - haha - so I have to make the best of what I CAN do.

You have to understand to stay in the roofing industry for many years you have to error on the side of caution and treat people fairly. Sure I could slap some goop up there collect a $1,000 dollar check from you and hit the road, but when it leaks again, my name would be mud. This doesn't allow a company to stay in the field for 30+ years. With that being said you also have to know when it can be repaired or when the repair will cost more in the long run then replacement. More on that later.

To answer your first question. Even though I am not an old timer like a lot, i've been in the industry for many years, I've really not had a choice being basically born in to it and all. While I don't know everything, I do know when a roof is or isn't worth fixing. And why would I want to crawl around in a attic when I don't feel there is a need? I'll be the first to say I don't make it a habit to crawl around in attics, it's not pleasant and frankly I don't want to have a problem and some how put my foot through someone's ceiling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtroad72 (Post 1212044)
Since I last posted, I've been all throughout the crawl space - it's 4' up there - inspected very slowly since the temps are down with the rain - and there is not a drop of water coming through anywhere in the flat portion - only at the edges where the flashing is rusted. There are 3 spots that are urgently in need of repair at this point. I'll need to replace some of the plywood on the mansard pitch in those areas. Truly, I don't see the point of replacing the areas that aren't showing any signs of leaking, although it would be great to have a whole new roof. It's not in the budget and I need to fix the problems I have right now. So again, is it doable to peel back the edge, replace the flashing and stick it back down? And if so, would I be able to use roof cement to stick it back down? If not, what would be a better repair procedure?


This bring up the point I made earlier, the cost/benefit ratio.

Pealing back the edge and squirting some stuff in there will do nothing for you, it's a short term solution at best.

To do it right you would have to cut out all of the roofing in the effected areas, replace the wood, ad a new base sheet and tie it in, then add the plys or roofing, then the drip edge, then strip that in. Yes that's the cliffsnotes version. Even to do one side properly you would be over the $1,000 dollar mark, and if your having problems with a few areas then likely the whole thing would need to be done. So take that X 4 and your at +4K.

And to be honest if you were to do this your self it would probably run about 500 + in materials.

So either way you are putting 1k in materials doing the repair your self or 4k for someone else to do it in to a roof that is 12 years old and is already having problems. To me that doesn't make sense, a roof is not a pair of jeans, a roof keeps the whole building from falling a part, and the fact that there is already bad plywood means that it has been going on for some time.

For me I would never sell or try to sell a customer 4k worth of repairs that will not at least give them another 5 years, and if the roof is at least 12 years old unless it was in great condition otherwise I wouldn't do it at all.

Say your roof to tear off and replace costs 500 a sq for the flat roof thats $19,000, that would come with a 10+ year warranty. Or you can put 4k in to this roof now, then 6 months later you have to put 500, then 1k, then 900 and it continues that way for the 3-5 years the inspector gave you. What have you really saved? Nothing you lost out trying to save an old worn out roof.


There is a time and place for "conservationism" On your 12 year old roof that protects your houses structure and personal belongings is not one of them.

1985gt 07-08-2013 12:06 PM

Can you post some pictures of the drip edge in the areas it is rotting the wood?


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