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-   -   Losing aggregate from asphalt shingle ridge (http://www.diychatroom.com/f9/losing-aggregate-asphalt-shingle-ridge-9746/)

bkspero 07-08-2007 05:44 PM

Losing aggregate from asphalt shingle ridge
 
I have a house built new in NJ in 1988. Gable roof is Tamko Heritage multilayer asphalt shingles. I believe that the warranty is 50 yrs, but it could be less. Shingles are over a plywood deck over an attic. Vent louvers are located in each gable end (about 12-18" x 18-24"), plus 2, 10-12" square roof vents in the south facing roof. There also is an attic fan set to turn on when the attic temperature exceeds 85 degrees. There are no soffit vents (no soffits, really).

My problem is that the shingles along the ridge and some of the shingles near the ridge are losing their aggregate. Some near the east end of the ridge are just about completely stripped of aggregate. Initially I thought that it was staining (like mildew) because the underlying color is black. But then I noticed that the downspouts were depositing large amounts of shingle aggregate at their bases after a heavy rain. I then inspected using binoculars and it's clear that the black color is due to missing aggregate.

Otherwise the roof looks normal. Shingles are flat, not curled. All of the tabs are intact. From what I can see of the plywood from inside my attic, it looks flat, normally colored, and securely attached to the roof rafters. At present there are no leaks. Exposed points of nails protruding from the plywood show some rust, but relatively minor.

New Jersey is not an extreme weather area. No high-wind hurricanes (we get the rain at the tail end). Rare tornadoes (none that affected my house). Moderate temperatures compared to the South. The roof does not get walked on. In particular, not the ridge. So the roof has experienced a relatively mild environment.

The only thing I can think of is that we sometimes see birds sitting on our roof ridge. So their deposits could be having an effect. But that happens to our neighbor's houses (built by the same builder) and their roofs are ok. And I can't believe that shingles would not be designed to tolerate ocassional bird droppings.

What do you think could be causing this? What is the best way to respond to the situation? I'm worried both about leaks and that the roof is an eyesore.

Since the roof should still be well under warranty, I don't want to just call a contractor and have him replace the ridge or roof at my expense. I have sent an email to Tamko informing them of the issue and asking for their recommendation on what I should do. But if past experience with other companies is any indication, I do not expect a quick response to a potential warranty claim. I do not know who installed the roof, as the house was built by a general contractor who handled all of the subcontracting.

Thanks in advance for your assistance. I tried searching and didn't find anything that addressed my situation. If I missed something relevant, just point me to the thread. Thanks again.

Ed the Roofer 07-12-2007 12:12 PM

Continuos and repetitive bird droppings are very acidic and could eat away at the random shingle areas. I have seen just one side of the ridge be very disolved from this degradation.

Other than that, you will probably wind up needing to replace the ridge shingle plus the top few shingles in the affected areas.

Is a car manufacturer responsible for paint blemishing from bird droppings remaining on the paintred finish of a new car? I don't personally see this as a manufacturers problem.

Ed

bkspero 07-12-2007 12:36 PM

We'll see what Tamko says
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer (Post 52699)
Continuos and repetitive bird droppings are very acidic and could eat away at the random shingle areas. I have seen just one side of the ridge be very disolved from this degradation.

Other than that, you will probably wind up needing to replace the ridge shingle plus the top few shingles in the affected areas.

Is a car manufacturer responsible for paint blemishing from bird droppings remaining on the paintred finish of a new car? I don't personally see this as a manufacturers problem.

Ed

Thanks for the reply, Ed. As for the question about car finishes, I don't know about bird droppings, but in the 70's and 80's there were big problems of auto finishes deteriorating from strong sunlight and slightly acidic rain. The car companies were obligated to refinish or buy back those cars that were within a reasonable life span (I wasn't directly involved, and I don't recall the exact age). The issue was that the detiorating environment was one which the product could reasonable be expected to experience. So if someone poured hydrochloric acid on the car then it would not qualify. But parking the car outside in the sun in Florida was considered reasonable use.

As for a roof. In my opinion, exposure to bird droppings in normal residential use isn't an unusual environment. We don't live in or near a bird sanctuary. Or even a large wooded area. We don't spread bird food on our roof. We're in a suburban development with a mix of trees and lawns, and birds sometimes use our roofs to stand.

Maybe Tamko will disagree. But we're not talking about some low end budget shingles. They were arguably the best available at the time and the best (and most expensive) that Tamko produced. With a 50 year warranty. And some are failing in normal use at <19 yrs. I would expect a company like Tamko to go a little further supporting such a product. I'd be satisfied if Tamko would pick up the prorated bill (60%) to replace the ridge shingles and the affected main shingles. In fact, I wouldn't make a big issue of it if they just told me to take a walk. But I will need to replace the roof in another 10-15 yrs, and it would help me decide if I want to consider Tamko again.

Ed the Roofer 07-12-2007 07:12 PM

If the problems are more related to the ridge cap shingles rather than the field shingles, the original roofer who installed them may not have used the enhanced ridge cap shingles and just used a 3-tab shingle of similar color to save himself some money for his own pocket.


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With a 50 year warranty
. And some are failing in normal use at <19 yrsI would expect a company like Tamko to go a little further supporting such a product


I am not aware of a 50 year shingle produced by Tamko from about 19 years ago. Do you have the original paperwork from the roof installation?

I started using Tamko on a regular basis around 1991 or there-abouts, and the architectural shingles were a 25 year, 30 year, and I believe a 35 year. None were up to the 50 year level as so many are currently from multiple manufacturers.

Ed

bkspero 07-12-2007 09:09 PM

Only the builder's literature
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer (Post 52737)
If the problems are more related to the ridge cap shingles rather than the field shingles, the original roofer who installed them may not have used the enhanced ridge cap shingles and just used a 3-tab shingle of similar color to save himself some money for his own pocket.

I am not aware of a 50 year shingle produced by Tamko from about 19 years ago. Do you have the original paperwork from the roof installation?


Ed


I only have the builder's advertising literature saying 50 yr shingles. It did say GAF Timberline, and when I saw them installing Tamko I inquired. He said that they were equivalent shingles.

Ed the Roofer 07-12-2007 11:10 PM

If they didn't put the roof they told you they would be putting on in the first place, why do you think they gave you a 50 year alternate shingle as a replacement.

It sounds very shady to me, but it sounds like it was with your permission since you didn't complain or stop them from continuing on with there little bait and switch scheme.

Were there any bundles left over? Look at the bundle wrapper and get the code numbers off of the side of the bundle and the brand name and style and length of warranty should be imprinted on the bundle.

Do you have anything written in the original contract proposal or on the invoice for the job stating what product was installed? Did you request the warranty form from the manufacturer odf the shingles for your records?

Keep digging and try to find the answers before you blame the shingle manufacturer for what a shady roofer switched you to.

Ed

bkspero 07-13-2007 05:08 PM

Issues raised
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer (Post 52767)
If they didn't put the roof they told you they would be putting on in the first place, why do you think they gave you a 50 year alternate shingle as a replacement.

It sounds very shady to me, but it sounds like it was with your permission since you didn't complain or stop them from continuing on with there little bait and switch scheme.

Were there any bundles left over? Look at the bundle wrapper and get the code numbers off of the side of the bundle and the brand name and style and length of warranty should be imprinted on the bundle.

Do you have anything written in the original contract proposal or on the invoice for the job stating what product was installed? Did you request the warranty form from the manufacturer odf the shingles for your records?

Keep digging and try to find the answers before you blame the shingle manufacturer for what a shady roofer switched you to.

Ed

I did some research on Tamko at the time the builder told me about the change, and that brand was highly recommended by the people with whom I spoke. Is it considered inferior to GAF?

There are several other instances where he gave me alternative items of equal or higher value when the originally specified item was unavailable or, in one case, where it was damaged by the craftspeople. In this type of situation it makes no sense to be hardnosed for the sake of being hardnosed. We all have jobs to do, and as long as a person is not trying to cheat me (and I don't believe that he was) then I am going to do everything I can to work with him/her.

I do have a bundle of shingles. It lists Tamko Heritage as the brand and type. Plus a bunch of information that looks like it was printed on at the time of manufacturing (date, what could be a lot number, etc.). I do not see a warranty statement printed on the shingle.

I have documentation from the builder, but he was a small operation and there's no way I can track him down (nor would it make financial sense to try and track him down).

I am home now and will be calling Tamko. I am not blaming the shingle manufacturer. I am going to call them, tell them the type of shingle that I have, describe the symptoms, and see what they say. If they tell me that the builder lied and that they are only 20 yr shingles, then I will drop it, get the roof fixed, and move on. If they tell me that they are 50 yr shingles, or even 35 yr shingles, then I will probably ask for some accomodation.

Ed the Roofer 07-13-2007 07:38 PM

At least you have a bundle of shingles and the ever important bundle wrapper. That is much more important than most people realize. It identifies the date of manufacture and has a code for the type and style of shingle it was too.

I believe very strongly that Tamko is a much better shingle product than GAF, but my point is that the contractor switched brands without getting a change order carried out.

Ed

dmaceld 07-19-2007 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkspero (Post 52162)
Initially I thought that it was staining (like mildew) because the underlying color is black. But then I noticed that the downspouts were depositing large amounts of shingle aggregate at their bases after a heavy rain. I then inspected using binoculars and it's clear that the black color is due to missing aggregate.

Are you absolutely sure it's not mold? The reason I ask is because I had a house in Louisiana I believed was loosing its aggregate all the way to the underlying base. Shingles were black, a close look on hands and knees on the roof showed a smooth black surface as one would expect the asphalt layer to be, and there was lots of sand in the rain gutter.

Don't know why, just a hunch I guess, but before I pulled a couple of shingles to send to Tamko I poured bleach on some of the black area. Lo and behold, it came clean!

All the black area I thought was loosing aggregate was in fact heavily covered with mold. Outdoor Clorox, a broom to spread it around, and a garden hose to rinse it all off and roof looked like new!


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