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Old 01-02-2013, 03:43 AM   #91
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


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You mean this flashlight holder?



That's the last remaining original gas fixture arm in the house. The rest were all removed at some point and capped. And then splattered with plaster and paint over the many years. I have a goal to replace them all with matching arms, and appropriate glass globes. If I ever complete the 6,423 things on the list above that, I'll be sure to get it done!
Nice! I'd clean it up and install it somewhere it would be seen like in an entry or living area, rather than out of sight in a storage room. I thought having a few original 1930s electric fittings in my home was nice, but that is even better!

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Old 01-02-2013, 12:04 PM   #92
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


Fun new start to the day today.

The roofers started cutting ridge vents into the roof.

As you all know, we never discussed venting. A lot of folks feel that it's necessary, and some feel that it's not. I don't know one way or the other which is right. But I do know that my house doesn't have vents. And if he was gonna ADD vents, he needed to put that in the contract!

We stopped work and spoke to him about it. He said he always intended to put in ridge vents. (He didn't seem to want to add soffit vents, mind you. Just ridge vents.) And he insisted that the roof won't pass inspection without the ridge vents.

We said he could continue work on all things already listed on the contract. And that he needed to write another addendum to the contract with all the necessary details about venting, and we would make a decision of how we want to move forward.

Now I need to go to the code enforcement office and see if he's right about passing inspection. And then I have to decide if we want ridge vents with no soffit vents anyway.

And if not, I have to decide if we can walk away from the $7k we've already paid him, and have to start fresh with someone else.

No matter what, this guy is getting a scathing review on Yelp. And I may have to build an effigy of him to get some of my aggression out in a legal manner.

Last edited by Hren; 01-02-2013 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:56 PM   #93
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


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Fun new start to the day today.

The roofers started cutting ridge vents into the roof.

As you all know, we never discussed venting. A lot of folks feel that it's necessary, and some feel that it's not. I don't know one way or the other which is right. But I do know that my house doesn't have vents. And if he was gonna ADD vents, he needed to put that in the contract!

We stopped work and spoke to him about it. He said he always intended to put in ridge vents. (He didn't seem to want to add soffit vents, mind you. Just ridge vents.) And he insisted that the roof won't pass inspection without the ridge vents.

We said he could continue work on all things already listed on the contract. And that he needed to write another addendum to the contract with all the necessary details about venting, and we would make a decision of how we want to move forward.

Now I need to go to the code enforcement office and see if he's right about passing inspection. And then I have to decide if we want ridge vents with no soffit vents anyway.

And if not, I have to decide if we can walk away from the $7k we've already paid him, and have to start fresh with someone else.

No matter what, this guy is getting a scathing review on Yelp. And I may have to build an effigy of him to get some of my aggression out in a legal manner.
This guy may or may not have had good intentions but customer care and consideration seems to be at a loss.Makes you wonder how people can stay in business that long by doing things like that ? Or what makes you so special ? Yeah lucky you.

People install ridge vents without functioning soffit all the time.It works but ideally ridge vent and soffit combo is the best ventilation system right now.Btw,its always a good idea to have a copy of code requirements and restrictions so you can confirm your roofers installations.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:43 PM   #94
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


Sure, people install ridge vents without soffit vents all the time. But that doesn't mean it's ok!

So, pardon me now while I pretend that my few months research on this trumps your actual experience with roofing. (Honestly, though, feel free to correct me where I'm getting this wrong. I'm here to learn, not just to whinge on about my opinions.)

I don't really buy the line that shingle life is extended by adding vents. My attic air doesn't get anywhere near as hot as the sunlight itself heats the outside of the shingles. I can't see how lowering the air temperature a few degrees (at most) under the shingles could possibly make a difference. It's like putting cold butter into a hot frying pan, and pretending that'll keep the pan from getting very hot. Let's just throw that idea out the window and move on.

The idea of a ridge vent is that it exhausts air out of the top-most part of the house. If you don't have soffit vents, where does that air come from? Well, from inside the house, of course!

We have no insulation in the attic floor. Which means that all of our conditioned air will be pulled from the second floor into the attic and vented out the roof. In Summer, this means we'll be tossing expensive cold air out of roof. In Winter, it means we'll also be heating up the attic and possibly melting snow and causing ice dams.

So, no matter what way I look at it, I can't see adding a ridge vent and no other vents. And, frankly, I don't want any vents at all!

But all of this is incidental. The contract doesn't say anything about vents, and the started cutting into my beloved house with circular saws! If he's willing to do that without asking, what the heck else is he doing that I don't know about?! This needs to have his licenses revoked.

(I'm using smileys cause I can't use the words I wanna use in such polite company!)
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:25 PM   #95
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Sure, people install ridge vents without soffit vents all the time. But that doesn't mean it's ok!

So, pardon me now while I pretend that my few months research on this trumps your actual experience with roofing. (Honestly, though, feel free to correct me where I'm getting this wrong. I'm here to learn, not just to whinge on about my opinions.)

I don't really buy the line that shingle life is extended by adding vents. My attic air doesn't get anywhere near as hot as the sunlight itself heats the outside of the shingles. I can't see how lowering the air temperature a few degrees (at most) under the shingles could possibly make a difference. It's like putting cold butter into a hot frying pan, and pretending that'll keep the pan from getting very hot. Let's just throw that idea out the window and move on.

The idea of a ridge vent is that it exhausts air out of the top-most part of the house. If you don't have soffit vents, where does that air come from? Well, from inside the house, of course!

We have no insulation in the attic floor. Which means that all of our conditioned air will be pulled from the second floor into the attic and vented out the roof. In Summer, this means we'll be tossing expensive cold air out of roof. In Winter, it means we'll also be heating up the attic and possibly melting snow and causing ice dams.

So, no matter what way I look at it, I can't see adding a ridge vent and no other vents. And, frankly, I don't want any vents at all!

But all of this is incidental. The contract doesn't say anything about vents, and the started cutting into my beloved house with circular saws! If he's willing to do that without asking, what the heck else is he doing that I don't know about?! This needs to have his licenses revoked.

(I'm using smileys cause I can't use the words I wanna use in such polite company!)
I could explain the importance of ventilation as well as the manufacture but bottom line if you don't want the installation its your choice not to have it.

Should your contractor have discussed and explain ventilation and the procedure of installation prior to "Just doing it ",,Yes Why not have him install about 20 or so soffit vents ? They cost about $2 each. I threw the number 20 out not as if I know the actual amount needed but a vague number.

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Old 01-02-2013, 03:36 PM   #96
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


Aw heck-- my entire post is moot anyway. I just spoke to the building inspector, and he will fail the job for not having a ridge vent.

He will also fail the job for under 5 nails in the shingles, and for nails that don't connect the sheathing to the rafters. So at least he's on my side there! We'll see what happens when he actually comes to the house, though.

So now we have to get a ridge vent. And, quite honestly, if this had been in the original estimate, we might have opted for the repair only. My verdict is still out on venting, and I wouldn't have subjected my beautiful house to it if I didn't have to.

Last edited by Hren; 01-02-2013 at 05:08 PM. Reason: language
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:40 PM   #97
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Aw heck-- my entire post is moot anyway. I just spoke to the building inspector, and he will fail the job for not having a ridge vent. Stupid ing er.

He will also fail the job for under 5 nails in the shingles, and for nails that don't connect the sheathing to the rafters. So at least he's on my side there! We'll see what happens when he actually comes to the house, though.

So now we have to get a ridge vent. And, quite honestly, if this had been in the original estimate, we might have opted for the repair only. My verdict is still out on venting, and I wouldn't have subjected my beautiful house to it if I didn't have to.
Hmmm,,,I really hope you will keep us posted because I am VERY interested in the plywood installation.And I have to admit the thoughts and views of the plywood installation by the inspector.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:43 PM   #98
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The fact that he didn't have installing ridge vent (where none previously existed) in the quote leads me to believe he may not have originally been planning on doing that. And maybe decided to do it after your complaints in an attempt to give the appearance of doing it right and meeting shingle warranty requirements. Then again, the fact that he delayed installing the ridge caps (I thought you had mentioned that earlier in the thread) may mean he did intend to do this all along and just left it for last. Not that any of this really matters at this point.

I would agree with you that venting on an old house is not a simple issue, so good for you for questioning it (I'm not saying you're right, just complimenting you for using your brain). Since your attic is very much open and accessible and since it is now winter, you should easily be able to see if you are having condensation problems. With an old attic like that that's large and open with several exposed exterior walls and windows present, my guess is you probably already get a fair amount of air flow through that space, and maybe that's enough for your needs (I honestly don't know). Things could change if you added something like a whole house humidifier (assuming you aren't already using one). I think you also mentioned that you open the windows in the summer? That may resolve any heat buildup issues.

Since you've already done some research, you already know there are many many opinions and theories on attic venting. You're never going to get a consensus on what you should do, so ultimately it's your call.

Edit: oops, looks like you posted an update while I was typing. I am a little surprised that they would require (by code) a ridge vent for a shingle replacement job on an old roof that didn't previously have venting. Especially since a ridge vent by itself isn't considered "proper venting".

It also sounds like you just talked your inspector into failing your roof inspection. That may not have been the outcome had you not brought this stuff up to him. This may help you with your contractor issues, then again, it may turn this into an even bigger mess. I'm thinking this thread is going to go on for quite a while.

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Old 01-02-2013, 03:44 PM   #99
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Hmmm,,,I really hope you will keep us posted because I am VERY interested in the plywood installation.And I have to admit the thoughts and views of the plywood installation by the inspector.
He told me sheathing orientation does not matter at all.

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Old 01-02-2013, 03:49 PM   #100
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Why not have him install about 20 or so soffit vents ? They cost about $2 each. I threw the number 20 out not as if I know the actual amount needed but a vague number.
Because this is an historic house that has been left largely unaltered since it was built. And I'm not cutting into my beautiful 105 year old bead board soffits! We are restoring the house, very carefully, piece by piece. We only even considered this roofing job because a tree fell on the house. And these jackasses-- who claim they are in the business of historic restoration-- are treating it like it's a piece of crap 1990s vinyl sided townhouse!
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:49 PM   #101
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


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He told me sheathing orientation does not matter at all.

Can you see why I don't trust ANYONE?! These people all seem like idiots to me!
You wanna see something else horrific to the homeowners ? Google requirements and training to become a home inspector or a building inspector in your area.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:54 PM   #102
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Can you see why I don't trust ANYONE?! These people all seem like idiots to me!
You've just learned an invaluable lesson. One that has served me well over the years.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:13 PM   #103
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It also sounds like you just talked your inspector into failing your roof inspection. That may not have been the outcome had you not brought this stuff up to him. This may help you with your contractor issues, then again, it may turn this into an even bigger mess. I'm thinking this thread is going to go on for quite a while.
I tried very hard NOT to do just that! I asked very neutrally to begin with. But he said that in all cases, a roof without a ridge vent would be failed.

I asked four different ways if we could get around it-- it's an old house, it never had any vents, there are no soffit vents, we already had ventilation through fans-- and he very simply and without explanation said "it'll fail without a ridge vent". (When I said "but we have no soffit vents" he said "that's just fine.")

He also answered all of my other questions immediately, and without consideration. Bad nails: fail. Missing nails: fail. Plywood orientation: no problem.

So...while I think it's entirely possible to wink wink nudge nudge your way through an inspection in this town, I don't think my questions changed the outcome. Because I wasn't gonna allow the contractor to fudge his way through this one in the first place!

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Old 01-02-2013, 04:28 PM   #104
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So he wants to use TriBuilt Airflow Ridge Vent. Which, from my Googling, is just a roll of what looks like fish tank filter mesh.



Is this as much of a low-end vent as I think it is? A roll of mesh? Why not just stuff some old jeans up there?!
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:41 PM   #105
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So he wants to use TriBuilt Airflow Ridge Vent. Which, from my Googling, is just a roll of what looks like fish tank filter mesh.



Is this as much of a low-end vent as I think it is? A roll of mesh? Why not just stuff some old jeans up there?!
Very low end IMO.You want a ridge vent with an external baffle.IMO those roll type are junk they get clogged and in some cases soak up moisture creating wet spots around the area of decking cut to allow the air to escape.

I prefer hand driven 3" Ridge nails.Some may say the roll type you can shoot with a nail gun are more effiecient and equally sturdy but I think not.

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