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Old 12-29-2012, 09:02 AM   #46
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


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Yikes.

Well...this is gonna be fun. We've got an insurance deadline of about the end of January to get this entirely done. If we don't make it, they cancel our homeowners insurance. And we won't be able to get new insurance because the claim for the tree damage definitely won't be closed by then.

In other words: time is of the essence!

I guess I have to get the building inspector out here ASAP. But I know my town, and that'll take ages.

Maybe I should just start bribing people. I mean, it is New Jersey. Isn't that what people do here?
IMO bribing is very unethical and in the end nothing good can come of it.However you can contact your insurance provider and explain in detail what has been going on with your claim(Storm restoration)

As long as you contact them before the deadline you can have an extension.So yes time is of the essence.Also don't call the building department go there.From my experience being in there in person is more direct.I have yet to be put on hold when I show up in person.Be firm,direct and respectful.Take the pictures with you and explain your situation.But be nice,,,

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Old 12-29-2012, 09:07 AM   #47
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


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The roof isn't vented.So when it came to pondering adding venting, we went with the "if it ain't broke" school of thought.
Not having adequate ventilation will drastically lower if not void manufacture warranty coverage.

Since the home was built construction techniques,beliefs and requirements have changed.Its up to the building departments and property owners to change with the times.Your roofer should have insisted and addressed the ventilation issue with you.

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Old 12-29-2012, 09:30 AM   #48
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The roof isn't vented. It's a 105-year-old house, the attic has never been conditioned, there is no insulation in the attic, and there have never been vents. The original roofing material was also most likely asphalt (or asbestos) shingles.

I don't know a ton about venting, and the more I read, the more different opinions I find. So when it came to pondering adding venting, we went with the "if it ain't broke" school of thought.

Definitely hand-hammering at least some aspect of the plywood. They were shaking the entire house!
If it isn't vented and isn't conditioned space, technically, it is broken.

There may be a bunch of different schools of thought but opinions are like you know what...most of the time.

This would have been the time to address that via a proper roofer and if you can get them to cease work because of the multitude of other items, I would seriously look into the venting question with the next roofer.

Good luck and I am really sorry this is such a nightmarish undertaking. It is not supposed to be.
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:23 PM   #49
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


Just a comment on the orientation of the plywood roof deck. I'm a DIYer (not a pro) so I'm not speaking to code, but since the plywood roof decking is being applied to horizontal strapping rather than directly to the rafters, it could be argued that vertical would be the better way (for the same reasons you would mount horizontally to vertical rafters). As to the errant nails, that is ugly. The only places they should have put the longer nails is at the intersections of the strapping and the rafters. Obviously that's a rather small target and it doesn't look like they made much of an effort to measure or otherwise mark the locations of the rafters and strapping before nailing.

OP, the fact that you have that old wood strapping means your house probably originally had wood shingles or something else more rigid than an asphalt shingle.
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:36 PM   #50
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Your home most likely had shakes or cedar shingles,. The verticle plywood over skip sheathing is a minor issue, IMHO of course. While I would never install it as such, I have reused decks done that way and seen no ill effects. the rest of the work is still crap though.
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:53 PM   #51
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IMO bribing is very unethical and in the end nothing good can come of it.
Oh goodness-- I meant that entirely as a joke. I would never in a million years try to bribe someone. My fiance would crack up if he was reading this. Cause he's in law enforcement, and I won't even let him use his badge to get us to the front of the line at baseball games! I'm a stickler for doing everything "the right way".

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However you can contact your insurance provider and explain in detail what has been going on with your claim(Storm restoration) As long as you contact them before the deadline you can have an extension.So yes time is of the essence.
Wanna hear a fun insurance story? No? Well here it is anyway.

We didn't like our homeowners insurance company. They were small and unprofessional. So, we decided to find a new company. I spent weeks emailing back and forth with a guy at a national company. We got a great quote from him, and we did a whole long meeting in his office to cover all questions. At one point he asked if we were planning to do any work on the house, and I told him we were replacing the porch stairs, as they were lousy when we bought the house two years ago.

(Side note: The previous owner shouldn't have been able to get a CO to sell the house. He didn't have permits for anything he'd done--roof, bathroom, kitchen, deck, etc--and the porch stairs were quite literally falling off the house. This is what I mean when I say that our building/code department isn't much help. They have no idea what they're doing.)

So, this insurance agent makes a note of the repairs we're planning, takes our info, takes our money, and sells us a policy. He says that with the age of the house and the pending repair, they'll probably do a quick visit to take pictures of the house for our file. *cue foreshadowing music here*

A month later he calls us to say that we'll be getting a letter giving us a deadline for finishing our porch stair repair. We hadn't started it, mind you. We were still getting bids and trying to plan what design we wanted. He says it's just a formality, and not to worry.

Then Hurricane Sandy hits, and a tree falls on the house, and we open an insurance claim.

After that, the letter comes, and it's a cancellation. It says we have to have the stairs replaced, and we can't have any trees "over" the house. Which we don't. We have a few small branches that reach out, but nothing big.

For three weeks I speak to them almost daily, trying to comply with their demands. We choose a carpenter for the stairs and rush a permit. We trim bushes back and send them proof that we had the storm-related tree removed already. We plead with them for an extension, and they tell us they're legally not allowed to give one. They flat out tell us we'd better start looking for a new insurer, because they don't think they'll accept our attempts at compliance.

After getting turned down by just about every insurance company in the book, we called an independent agent, and she somehow convinced a major carrier to give us a policy even though we have an open claim and significant damage to the house. But a week after they sent us our policy, they too said that they'll have to issue a cancellation if the roof isn't done by the end of January.

So...fun. Lots of fun. You can see why I don't really want to extend the roofing job any more than I have to!
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:29 PM   #52
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the rest of the work is still crap though.
This just had me laughing for a full five minutes! Yes! It really IS crap!

Maybe it's a woman thing, but it really feels good to have someone else bluntly saying it along with me.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:56 PM   #53
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


Not trying to cause a decking debate but.,.,To rely on the horizontal 1"x4"s to keep the plywood secure is not a recommended installation procedure.,Here is why;

Your fastening the plywood to 1"x3" s or 4" s.The fastener is clearing the entire surface it is being fastened to.Sooner or later that fastener will give way as the plywood is bowing out away from the roof.

When we install plywood while redecking we break on a rafter and start on a rafter.We use 3" ring shanks blasted by our Paslode and Hitachi framing guns.When possible we use H clips on all seams.

Posted is a diagram of the pros and cons of vertical plywood applications.I would never install plywood vertically nor would I ever agree with the procedure.

Even the Plywood Institute agrees the plywood is at is most strongest on a roof deck when installed horizontally.

And yes its a small target to hit,,,but chalk lines on CDX and those factory lines on OSB work wonders.
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:06 PM   #54
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Posted is a diagram of the pro,s and cons of vertical plywood applications.
That diagram says it all to me. And in my case, the vertical plywood isn't even breaking on the rafters, and much of it isn't full pieces. So in some cases, it's only touching two rafters. Or one.

You wouldn't happen to be able to recommend a roofer in my area, would you? We really might need to fire this guy, sue him for the money we already gave him, and start over again.
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:13 PM   #55
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P.m me your location.
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:19 PM   #56
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P.m me your location.
I am doing that right now. (Sorry for the dumb post. The board requires me to have 20 posts before I can PM, and I only had 19!)
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:19 PM   #57
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Whoops!

If the house had no passive ventilation before and you are not seeing signs of problems (mold, wetness, under sheathing frost, damp- insulation, etc.) don't lose sleep over it; for moisture control; http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1999/tenwo99a.pdf

Similar, but put together differently; http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2002/rose02a.pdf

Shingle warranty may be affected---- though not correctly so (read the plastic cover you enjoy hearing 24/7); http://www.professionalroofing.net/a...2/feature2.asp

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Old 12-29-2012, 05:22 PM   #58
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Btw,,,,If your area was declared a disaster area or classified as "Catastrophe" then your insurance provider cannot cancel you until a year after the declaration.

I have a couple friends who are in an organization who helps homeowners repair their properties after being taken advantage of by hacks.Lemme explain your situation and see if they can help because they are in Jersey working Sandy.
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:35 PM   #59
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If the house had no passive ventilation before and you are not seeing signs of problems (mold, wetness, under sheathing frost, damp- insulation, etc.) don't lose sleep over it

Gary
I will definitely read what you've linked here-- thank you!

Regarding the venting... The house does not have soffit or ridge vents, and no power vents, and we have no attic insulation whatsoever. But we have venting of a sort. We have three windows in the attic, and I have dual fans in them for three seasons out of the year (not Winter). The attic is appropriately hotter in Summer and cooler in Winter than the rest of the house, but not excessively so.

We have seen no evidence of the things people worry about with no insulation or venting. The attic is never musty and there is no mildew; it also isn't stifling and the air isn't parched. We haven't seen ice dams, and we had icicles only once or twice when other houses seemed to have them too. We don't have abnormally high energy costs, and we keep our thermostat relatively low in the Winter (64 to 68).

When I get cold, I knit a sweater.
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:35 PM   #60
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AS someone else pointed out; the plywood is probably laid correctly, if the edge nailing spacing pattern hits the shingle strapping boards, not the rafters. #30 here; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...002_par005.htm

6" nailing on the edges and 12" in the field of the plywood. Footnote "g" is location (wind-speed) for closer nailing at the gables,etc.; Fig. R301.2(4); http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...001_par004.htm
But I wouldn't worry too much if the plywood was already installed previously.

If the house had no passive ventilation before and you are not seeing signs of problems (mold, wetness, under sheathing frost, damp- insulation, etc.) don't lose sleep over it; for moisture control; http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1999/tenwo99a.pdf

Similar, but put together differently; http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2002/rose02a.pdf

Shingle warranty may be affected---- though not correctly so (read the plastic cover you enjoy hearing 24/7); http://www.professionalroofing.net/a...2/feature2.asp

Gary

Much respect GBR and don't wanna start another war But I agree with the fastening but what about the method of plywood installation ?

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