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Old 12-28-2012, 11:57 AM   #31
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


We all get caught in the dark at some point in a career.Most times its not planned.

I was on a job in STL and my wife and I were flying to San Diego to get married at Hotel Del Coronado.It was Christmas day and we were scheduled to fly out the next morning for S.D.The house was on the UMSL campus.We were short handed and we rented some huge halogen lamps.We finished that roof at 12:45 a.m and we were ridging in blowing snow.Got sick but still made our flight @ 7:15 a.m.I have it on video and show my customers our dedication to job completion.hahahahaha sorry,,I get side tracked sometimes.

She could hardly talk because of being in the frigid temps and blowing snow but she managed to say "I do" on New Years Eve.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:13 PM   #32
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


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Ok...so now I'm worried again. Here are pictures of the work they've been doing on the actual shingles. They don't look like they're staggered correctly to me. I read the GAF instructions. They're supposed to repeat every 5th row. This looks more like a random assemblage.

What do you folks think?



Just curious what is that white thing on the side of the roof in pic # 1 ?

Also on the same picture with the white thing,,, I am zooming in to look at the offset (Stagger) and I am not liking it.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:15 PM   #33
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


I hear you roofmaster. This is not a difficult job for an experienced crew. Make sure it is done the right way. Normally this is from an inexperienced contractor who didn't know how to bid the job correctly which is why they got the job.

This one we had to replace after a few years (50 year Elk shingle) because of terrible workmanship. Unfortunate situation.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:34 PM   #34
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I hear you roofmaster. This is not a difficult job for an experienced crew. Make sure it is done the right way. Normally this is from an inexperienced contractor who didn't know how to bid the job correctly which is why they got the job.

This one we had to replace after a few years (50 year Elk shingle) because of terrible workmanship. Unfortunate situation.
That is very nice and not trying to go too far off topic,,,but what did you do for chimney C.F ? Copper ? And I really like around the window sill for the counter flashing,,,very nice and very clean.,.,me likes much,much hahajajaxaxa,,,and Kudo's to the gutter guy,,,what a very detailed job they did as well.

When I see a cut up roofs like these I actually like them.The pride of driving by knowing you did that is worth more than the money you make doing it.
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Last edited by Roofmaster417; 12-28-2012 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:03 PM   #35
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


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Just curious what is that white thing on the side of the roof in pic # 1 ?

Also on the same picture with the white thing,,, I am zooming in to look at the offset (Stagger) and I am not liking it.
If you mean the white thing in the middle, that would be a piece of Timberline plastic bag that got stuck under a shingle four days ago. What, you don't leave little pieces of plastic bag all over your roofing jobs?! They're like little rustling gifts that keep on giving.

I'm not pleased with the offset either. They definitely didn't follow the manufacturer's instructions. But even if they just made it look decent I wouldn't mind so much. The sloppiness is killing me. $14k and my roof looks like CRAP!

On the bright side: the fascia they fixed today looks much, much better. It looks how I expected it to look on the first day. And they left the job site much cleaner, and actually stacked the remaining wood under tarps (ya think?!) and didn't leave debris all over the roof.

Back onto the dark side: I ducked my head out my attic window to inspect the flashing under the dormer they did today. One of the top shingles slid down the roof as soon as I touched it! It wasn't held on with ANYTHING. The ones next to it are at least tacked in with temporary nails. I imagine they're going to affix them in some other way (like, for example, the asphaltic plastic cement that GAF calls for in their instructions?) But really...this is just insanity.

They did use new flashing for this one. It looks like a dark brown, high gloss metal. I'll be happy when the shingles are actually attached to it, though.

Still no ridge caps on any part of the house that I can see. And I agree that it stinks to leave the house with no caps for days and days. Especially as we've had heavy rain, two wind advisories, and a nor'easter with snow, and now we have 1-3 inches of snow forecast for tomorrow. I want my caps, man!

I think I'll wait until tomorrow to take pictures for y'all of how the sheathing nails don't actually connect with the rafters. It's part of the joy of not having a finished attic that I can look up and see precisely where they missed. And missed. And missed.
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:22 PM   #36
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


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If you mean the white thing in the middle, that would be a piece of Timberline plastic bag that got stuck under a shingle four days ago. What, you don't leave little pieces of plastic bag all over your roofing jobs?! They're like little rustling gifts that keep on giving.

I'm not pleased with the offset either. They definitely didn't follow the manufacturer's instructions. But even if they just made it look decent I wouldn't mind so much. The sloppiness is killing me. $14k and my roof looks like CRAP!

On the bright side: the fascia they fixed today looks much, much better. It looks how I expected it to look on the first day. And they left the job site much cleaner, and actually stacked the remaining wood under tarps (ya think?!) and didn't leave debris all over the roof.

Back onto the dark side: I ducked my head out my attic window to inspect the flashing under the dormer they did today. One of the top shingles slid down the roof as soon as I touched it! It wasn't held on with ANYTHING. The ones next to it are at least tacked in with temporary nails. I imagine they're going to affix them in some other way (like, for example, the asphaltic plastic cement that GAF calls for in their instructions?) But really...this is just insanity.

They did use new flashing for this one. It looks like a dark brown, high gloss metal. I'll be happy when the shingles are actually attached to it, though.

Still no ridge caps on any part of the house that I can see. And I agree that it stinks to leave the house with no caps for days and days. Especially as we've had heavy rain, two wind advisories, and a nor'easter with snow, and now we have 1-3 inches of snow forecast for tomorrow. I want my caps, man!

I think I'll wait until tomorrow to take pictures for y'all of how the sheathing nails don't actually connect with the rafters. It's part of the joy of not having a finished attic that I can look up and see precisely where they missed. And missed. And missed.
Nope,I am not into tree ornaments in the form of shingle wrappers let alone stuck up under my newly installed shingles.It sounds to me you have your hands full.I have passed many job sites that have debris everywhere,,felt and shingle wrappers in the trees and other things that look very sloppy.

A contractor and crew should really develop the mindset of first impressions are valuable.Someone could put on a beautiful roof and treat the customer like they should be treated.Basically do everything right other than keep a tidy job site.A potential customer could be driving by and see that and you lose the first impression.Even if after your done everything is completely squared away everything is proper you have lost.And the bad part is that potential customer could have made a wrong turn and will never be in that area again.Or the person that saw your mess will never see the finished product.Cleanliness is key.

I am really curious what the decking looks like from the attic.That tells the tale.That itself cannot be explained away.

And leaving a roof like that ? He must have some good insurance.Lmao
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Last edited by Roofmaster417; 12-28-2012 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:50 PM   #37
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


Ask and ye shall receive!

Here are the pics of...what shall we call them... Air Nails! They magically fasten wood to air!







(Don't mind the bit of pink panther guts in the last shot. That's left over from our stop-gap attempt to limit the massive air exchange in the attic after the tree made friends with our roof. Now that we have wood there again, I can toss the insulation.)

I also found this interesting... They're hand-hammering the nails through the sheathing, but nail-gunning the shingle nails. Isn't that kinda backward?

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Old 12-28-2012, 10:29 PM   #38
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I am confused by the pix,,,,,Why is the wood grain running vertical ? The grain is supposed to run parallel with the gutter line.Surely they did not install the plywood vertical ?

Are all the seams of plywood vertical ?
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:40 PM   #39
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Could you take a picture of the seams ? Where the plywood butts up to each other ?
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:49 PM   #40
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Not all of the plywood is new. They are only contracted to replace any damaged/rotting/missing sheathing. As far as I can tell, though, all the plywood I can see in the attic runs that direction.

So, is horizontal sheathing a best practice thing, like priming fascia before hanging it? Or a code thing, like I can get the inspector to fail them and make them re-do the whole roof?!

(**please let it be code...please let it be code...please let it be code**)
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:53 PM   #41
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I can't get up to the attic now (my man is asleep, and this would surely wake him). But the seams are all over the place. The boards aren't all rectangular, and they're not all the same size. So, we've got vertical seams, horizontal seams, and some strange diagonal triangle stuff. It was a piece of crap roof to begin with. We didn't realize we should have demanded that they re-deck the whole roof. So...we might be out of luck just for being uneducated about that. Unless it's against code to re-roof over an incorrectly applied deck. In which case we might win the lottery!
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:59 PM   #42
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How is this roof vented?

Nail the shingles would be a different pneumatic gun than the nailer for the plywood. I wouldn't be surprised by anything from this crew at this point.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:06 PM   #43
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Plywood is to be installed parallel to the gutterline.A sheet of plywood is at its strongest when installed that way.The plywood has to be broke on a rafter/truss.Broke meaning each end seam always starts or stops on a rafter/truss.

I am not aware of any building code for roof structures and assemblies that recognizes nor accepts vertical plywood installation as a "Acceptable" form of installation for CDX plywood or OSB plywood.

What will happen over time is the plywood will bow out,,popping any fasteners along with it.If they installed that plywood vertical then you put a stop order on the project and get your building department involved IMMEDIATELY !!!!
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:51 AM   #44
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Yikes.

Well...this is gonna be fun. We've got an insurance deadline of about the end of January to get this entirely done. If we don't make it, they cancel our homeowners insurance. And we won't be able to get new insurance because the claim for the tree damage definitely won't be closed by then.

In other words: time is of the essence!

I guess I have to get the building inspector out here ASAP. But I know my town, and that'll take ages.

Maybe I should just start bribing people. I mean, it is New Jersey. Isn't that what people do here?
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:04 AM   #45
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How is this roof vented?
The roof isn't vented. It's a 105-year-old house, the attic has never been conditioned, there is no insulation in the attic, and there have never been vents. The original roofing material was also most likely asphalt (or asbestos) shingles.

I don't know a ton about venting, and the more I read, the more different opinions I find. So when it came to pondering adding venting, we went with the "if it ain't broke" school of thought.


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Nail the shingles would be a different pneumatic gun than the nailer for the plywood. I wouldn't be surprised by anything from this crew at this point.
Definitely hand-hammering at least some aspect of the plywood. They were shaking the entire house!
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