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Old 01-12-2013, 06:00 PM   #196
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


My entire life I ran on the idea "Dont worry about the money, do what you do well and the money will be there" It worked for me. Now I guess its get the money, do a marginal job, and on to the next one.

Im too old to deal with the BS anymore.

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Old 01-12-2013, 06:54 PM   #197
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


I dont understand how this guy, who knows he is under a micorscope, could leave anything to chance at this point. This guy should be at the jobsite everyday supervising the corrections / repairs. Assuming his guys will do it right is just asking for trouble. We already know what they are capable of without supervision. At this point i feel like this guy is doing as little as possible to get a passing grade.

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The shingle warranty is the weakest part of this house of cards. Which is why we made the roofer put in the contract that his company will take over the manufacturer's warranty terms if his installation voids their warranty.
Wow, i dont even know what to say about that one. Based on that statement i would have the Manufacturer do an inspection and know whom is covering your roof for its lifetime.
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:42 PM   #198
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


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I dont even know what to say about that one. Based on that statement i would have the Manufacturer do an inspection and know whom is covering your roof for its lifetime.
That's what I am saying.She is eager to get him out of her life (And rightfully so) but is taking a chance of keeping him in the picture until the day they sell the house.

I would not give this guy a penny until my roof was inspected by the manufacture.I have heard of people sending red flags with their actions.

This guy isn't just waving a little red flag this guy is standing by a flag pole with a 50'x50' solid red flag blowing in the wind while wearing a red shirt,red pants,red shoes and a red hat screaming at the top of his lungs,,,BEWARE OF ME !!!
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:10 PM   #199
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


Based on what you have been relating to us, it is a good chance that you contractor will not be around in a year or two. Get a manufacturers inspection, and punch list. Make sure the punch list is completed and signed off on, and you have a fully executed manufacturers warranty. The problem I see with your home is that they could easily use lack of ventilation as an excuse to void the warranty, even though it is a bogus excuse.
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:48 PM   #200
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


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Based on what you have been relating to us, it is a good chance that you contractor will not be around in a year or two. Get a manufacturers inspection, and punch list. Make sure the punch list is completed and signed off on, and you have a fully executed manufacturers warranty. The problem I see with your home is that they could easily use lack of ventilation as an excuse to void the warranty, even though it is a bogus excuse.
Exactly!

More than likely this will not meet the requirements of the manufacturer, and this guy wont be around to make good any claim you or the next HO will have. Paying this guy anything more is a mistake without the manufacturer inspection. I question if the roofer should even be present for that inspection, i feel the manufacurers rep could feel pressured by the roofer to "ok" the roof when in fact its not. His final payment is only due if it passes the manufacturers inspection. I would also require the BI to actually get on the roof to inspect every detail, and i would let him/her know that the manufacturer is also going to come out.

You MUST get the manufactuer warranty, to pay the roofer would be foolish for a non compliant installation.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:35 PM   #201
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The problem I see with your home is that they could easily use lack of ventilation as an excuse to void the warranty, even though it is a bogus excuse.
I agree but it seems to me she really isn't concerned to much about the ventilation as she is for proper fastener count for steeper slope or wind compliance for her region,fastener placement,flashing etc.You know the basic entry level "Apprentice Roofing 101".

The problem with her roof and an inspection obviously is the pitch.But any inspector with a 32' ladder with stand offs can extend the ladder with the ropes attached to the ladder and lay the ladder onto the roof and inspect the entire roof,,,slope by slope.That is possible given adequate access of course.

I too would have the representative inspect the roof without interference from the roofer.I have been on site during inspections many times but I let the inspecting official do his job without me breathing down his neck or trying to influence the out come with charm.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:39 PM   #202
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[QUOTE=jagans;1092067] it is a good chance that you contractor will not be around in a year or two. ]

I think she said he has been in business for 30+ years.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:20 AM   #203
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


I think that all of us that have been in the roofing business for a while realize that the manufacturers warranty is a double edged sword. It is written by the manufacturers legal department to protect the manufacturer.

Of all the reasons to deny coverage under warranty, in asphalt shingle roof systems, lack of adequate ventilation is the number one reason given. Why? Because it can be argued.

I have stated before on this forum the reason why the ventilation issue is unfounded, but it is still used by shingle manufacturers, and I am sure that they will never back off of the issue. For them it is a win-win situation, as they get to sell ventilated soffit and ridge vent.

Is it good to have ventilation? Yes, to prevent ice dams. Does lack of ventilation overheat the shingles, leading to failure? No. Why? Because wood is an insulator, and all shingles reach a terminal temperature. Darker shingles get hotter, but then the heat rising from their surface starts convection currents, which pull air up the surface of the roof to cool them. Chimney Effect. Think about it, its pretty simple physics.

The asphalt shingle manufacturers learned in the mid eighties that it did not make sense to be the cheapest guy on the block, when you already had the best value for the roofing dollar in asphalt shingles.

The shingles made today are pretty darn good, for the most part. When they fail, it is because of poor installation, for the most part. There are exceptions, but God is in the details, Literally. If your flashing's are properly conceived and detailed, and your shingles are properly installed, and nailed over a proper substrate and underlayment, you will be OK. If not, your roof will leak.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:47 AM   #204
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


You guys all seem to be ignoring the fact that the shingle warranty is non-transferable. These shingles most likely aren't going to fail for warranty-covered reasons before we sell the house. So the warranty is moot to begin with.

So, enough about the warranty.

This guy is a schmuck who scammed us into a new roof and didn't know what he was doing. We're the idiots who hired him, and who now get to live with the embarrassing error of owning a $14k roof that isn't worth $5k. Is the roof gonna blow off in the next big storm? Who knows? The last roof was a piece of ****, too, and it didn't blow off.

I'm done trying to figure this crap out. This guy is a scam artist. I fell for it. End of story.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:21 AM   #205
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


Most Shingle warranties today can be transferable. Sometimes the manufacturer has to inspect at time of transfer, but they are transferable.

The bigger issue, in your case, is to have an inspection done by a tech rep from the mfgr so any deficiencies can be corrected.

Or, you can just be done with your current contractor and have somebody good come in and fix the problems. Frankly, I have very little faith in the guy who messed it up in the first place fixing it properly, because if he knew what he was doing, he would have done it right in the first place.

You are probably right, the warranty would not stand down the road due to lack of ventilation, even though that would probably not be the reason for failure.

You need to get the flashing at the rising walls fixed. That's where your leaks are going to occur IMHO.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:45 AM   #206
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


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Or, you can just be done with your current contractor and have somebody good come in and fix the problems. Frankly, I have very little faith in the guy who messed it up in the first place fixing it properly, because if he knew what he was doing, he would have done it right in the first place.
We don't have the money. We just spent $14k that we didn't have. We don't have more to spend.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:03 AM   #207
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


Yes, I understand Hren.

Basically, there should be a color matched aluminum counter flashing that runs up under the felt below the shake siding on your home. The flange of the metal should have a return hem on the bottom and slide onto a continuous cleat nailed at the base of the angle change. Some roofers use Ice dams material up under the felt, and out onto the roof, then nail shingle tabs through it, but I dont like it. I like the metal. Im sure Andy will chime in here, and maybe he has a way he does it, but thats my story, and Im stickin to it, as they say.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:56 PM   #208
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


So...new question... is it kosher for a roofer to skip the inspection by the building inspector?

EDITED TO CLARIFY: The roofer scheduled the inspection with the town for today. Then he told us this morning that he wasn't going to the inspection himself, and that he didn't think he needed to be there.

Last edited by Hren; 01-17-2013 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:28 PM   #209
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So...new question... is it kosher for a roofer to skip the inspection by the building inspector?

Absolutely NOT.

The inspector could require the area to be inspected after the fact. If he roofed prior to getting the roof sheathing signed off, the inspector can still insist the sheathing be inspected. This would mean the roofer has to remove all the installed shingles on his dime. I doute this happens much, but it very well could be required if the inspector wants to play hard ball.

If your roofer just plain didnt call it in or didnt get a permit and never planed to call for one then i would be very concerned. He is trying to cut costs and by that i mean no permit fees and sloppy incorrect work. Who knows whats going on under the shingles even if they are perfect...which we know they arent.

We do get a pass without inspection sometimes, but its limited to weather mostly. I will paper if its starting to rain and my inpsector is not there yet. I will offer to pull up the paper any where they like in multiple areas. Keep in mind this is in cities we do a ton of work in weekly and the inspectors know we replace all the bad sheathing every time. At times (cities we dont do much work in) i will take pics of the newly installed sheathing and general pics of the deck to show it was done and also that the sheathing was nailed properly. So long as you cover your a**and make every effort you should be ok. But if your not calling for one at all you got some big balls, they can require you to tear it off and start over.

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Old 01-17-2013, 07:38 PM   #210
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There is only one inspection, at the end, in my town. There is no pre-shingle inspection.

He definitely got a permit. I've been to the code enforcement department three times myself. He got a permit, and he scheduled the inspection.

I've edited my other post to clarify that I don't mean that he's failing to get an inspection. He's just failing to be there.


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