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Old 01-08-2013, 09:50 AM   #151
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


He has now left the entire sample books for SW and BM for me to choose a paint color.

He thinks I'm supposed to go through hundreds of paint samples?! We told him to match the paint. That was three weeks ago. He's a professional house painter. He can't match a white paint with three weeks lead time?! I'm supposed to?!?! ON THE SPOT?!

Ok...at this point I'm just venting here, aren't I? I hope that's not too annoying. I'm just so angry, and if I don't blow off a little steam here there's no way I'm going to get through this with him. And I need to get through this! I need it done. And soon. Before I give birth to a cow.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:05 AM   #152
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


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Hren, you're on the verge of turning into the bad guy here. You've been complaining about every choice he has made without consulting you, and now you complain when he asks for you to pre-approve his choices. You two need to work together to get this completed because you are driving each other nuts. This thread is starting to sound like an ugly divorce.
It feels like an ugly divorce! You are welcome to believe I'm the bad guy. But I know better. I know what I've asked him for, and I know what he's producing. I have been "complaining" here about half of what he's done wrong. I haven't even mentioned the other half.

I never told him I needed to approve every choice. I never asked to approve the gutters or paint. I asked him to adhere to what is in the contract (to match what's already on the house) and to consult me when that's not possible. If it's not possible for him to match the gutters and paint, he had three weeks to talk to me about that. The DAY of the work is not the time to come to me in a big rush.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:54 AM   #153
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


You needed to have a good specification going in which clarified all of these issues. To complain about what the guy does after he does it because it wasen't specified is BS.

He might usually use rectangular corrugated downspout, and you really wanted round smooth, because that is what your house probably had originally.

As far as exterior paint goes, anyone with half a brain knows that proper preparation is paramount. You want the best in my opinion? Pratt and Lambert AccoladeŽ Exterior Acrylic.

I would use nothing less on high work where the cheapest part of the job is the paint, regardless of price. The work is in getting up there.


SW and BM are good, P&L is Excellent.



As another poster here said, you need to do your homework. There is no longer a "State of the Art" in building trades. Us old timers fight BS every day to maintain quality, but trying to sell quality is getting harder every day with all the warranty pushers out there. I tell people all the time that I have never once seen a piece of paper with fancy scalloped edges keep water out of a building.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:19 PM   #154
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


Is he planning on painting in the winter in New Jersey?
I know it's just some touch up, but still. I'd wait.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:54 PM   #155
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


I lol when you said you broke out the "log book".

Granted your irritated at him for all this and you probably have him paranoid about making a choice without your approval. I am sure he wants the job done as much as you do, but he is afraid doing work on the chance you dont like it or complain he didnt get approval.

He is at least working with you, he could have just walked...it happens. If it were me, i would pick a color for him. Same goes for the down spouts, i would just pick them. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, how quick you get there will depend on you two working together...even if you feel you should not have to do a damn thing.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:14 PM   #156
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


I feel for Hren,,she and her husband have gone and are continuing to go through a nightmare of a restoration.

The thing that gets me is unless this job was won at a raffle during a job fair then he seen the job,bidded the job,won the contract for the job so he had to have known what the job entitled.

As everyone knows once the homeowner signs the contract worry begins.I don't care who you are as a customer these thoughts exist.

We also know that being very thorough with the project 360° secures the customers confidence in your companies abilities to follow through.

This IMO is the sequence of events that should have transpired;

1.Contractor is called

2.Contractor inspects the roof and any components directly or indirectly associated with the project.If its a storm claim he will inspect for legitimate storm damage or if not measures the roof and creates an estimate that is thorough and itemized..

3.Contractor goes over said estimate with customer and also discusses any findings that could be of concern or will affect any phase of the project or could affect affect pricing.Contractor asks customer if they understand the estimate and if there is anything they have questions about your estimate.Contractor once again discusses colors,material type,grade and performance etc.

4.Contractor wins the contract

5.Contractor meets with customer to go over the contract for a second time making sure the contractor and customer are in agreement and understanding of the events to come.

6.Customer signs contract.

7.Contractor gives a defenite start date and orders materials.

8.Contractor provides enough manpower so the project is completed in a timely manner.

9.Contractor provides the materials,professionalism,workmanship and abilities within himself and his company/crews as he professed to provide in his contract.

IMO this guy bit off more than he could chew.All he had to do is give this customer the job they were paying for.That's it,,always more but never less.Maybe he should have looked at this customer as an asset rather than a paycheck.

Once this project started all the color,materials etc issues should have already been addressed. That's how that should be.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:53 PM   #157
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


I appreciate all of the comments here so much. Even the folks who don't necessarily agree with me! It helps me to have a mix of voices, so I can try to find a reasonable middle ground amid the mess that is this roofing job.

Roofmaster417... maybe it's cause you sound kinda like the voice of reason I already have in my head, but I REALLY appreciate the things you've said. You remind me that regardless of how I'm handling this (and I have my good moments and my bad ones) I'm not crazy for expecting things to go better than this!

Right now, things have taken a pretty big turn for the worse. And we're just hoping to get through this last push and be done with it sometimes soon, so our insurance isn't cancelled, and we can get on with our lives.

If there's one big mistake I made, it's that I didn't make the roofer explain all of the options BEFORE we signed the contract. (Good call, jagans.) I should have made all decisions beforehand and put the details in the contract as specifics. Instead, we trusted that he'd work with us along the way, like he said he would, and we contracted some stuff as just "homeowner to approve" or "roofer to use like materials".

Because of that, and because of his poor planning, he rushed us through some major decisions. The roof shingle color is a good example. We had assumed we'd be given the different options, and our roofer would recommend a color and we could talk about why it worked or didn't with our color scheme and the historic flavor of the house, and then my man and I could look at pictures of houses online as samples, etc etc. Instead, the roofer came in, held up a shingle sampler, and said "I need to order them right now. I think you should get this one. What do you want?"

Maybe we expected too much. But we didn't know that. And he made it sound like our expectations weren't unreasonable. So I couldn't have known when we hired him that we were expecting too much. I mean, I've never done this before! But now I do know it. And I will be better armed the next time we have to hire someone to work on our house.

The shame of it is how jaded I now sound. "Better armed." Like I assume it's going to be a battle. And that's really a shame.

I hope that as time goes on, I'll have enough good experiences that my attitude will change back again. Because I like being a positive person who trusts others. And I would really like to be able to relax and enjoy improving my house!

Last edited by Hren; 01-08-2013 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:11 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Hren
I appreciate all of the comments here so much. Even the folks who don't necessarily agree with me! It helps me to have a mix of voices, so I can try to find a reasonable middle ground amid the mess that is this roofing job.

Roofmaster417... maybe it's cause you sound kinda like the voice of reason I already have in my head, but I REALLY appreciate the things you've said. You remind me that regardless of how I'm handling this (and I have my good moments and my bad ones) I'm not crazy for expecting things to go better than this!

Right now, things have taken a pretty big turn for the worse. And we're just hoping to get through this last push and be done with it sometimes soon, so our insurance isn't cancelled, and we can get on with our lives.

If there's one big mistake I made, it's that I didn't make the roofer explain all of the options BEFORE we signed the contract. (Good call, jagans.) I should have made all decisions beforehand and put the details in the contract as specifics. Instead, we trusted that he'd work with us along the way, like he said he would, and we contracted some stuff as just "homeowner to approve" or "roofer to use like materials".

Because of that, and because of his poor planning, he rushed us through some major decisions. The roof shingle color is a good example. We had assumed we'd be given the different options, and our roofer would recommend a color and we could talk about why it worked or didn't with our color scheme and the historic flavor of the house, and then my man and I could look at pictures of houses online as samples, etc etc. Instead, the roofer came in, held up a shingle sampler, and said "I need to order them right now. I think you should get this one. What do you want?"

Maybe we expected too much. But we didn't know that. And he made it sound like our expectations weren't unreasonable. So I couldn't have known when we hired him that we were expecting too much. I mean, I've never done this before! But now I do know it. And I will be better armed the next time we have to hire someone to work on our house.

The shame of it is how jaded I now sound. "Better armed." Like I assume it's going to be a battle. And that's really a shame.

I hope that as time goes on, I'll have enough good experiences that my attitude will change back again. Because I like being a positive person who trusts others. And I would really like to be able to relax and enjoy improving my house!
Roof master, I have an office in basement over a deck that I put a partial roof over and then tiled the deck. It looks like the tile was installed correctly
Flashed, then a PVC membrane then a concrete board then tile. But now the outside wall in my office is peeling paint and there are a few water spots in ceiling. Any suggestions
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:06 PM   #159
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


Pulsar

I think you should create a new thread and provide some pictures for best results to your question. This will just confuse folks following Hrens situation.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:07 PM   #160
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I agree wholeheartedly with Andy, as usual. Your description is pretty hard to understand. Post pictures, (Inside damage too) carefully describe your system to the best of your ability, where you live (very important with Roofing) What your problems are, and when they tend to occur. (Blowing Rain, Direction, Snow etc.) Im sure we can help you.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:13 AM   #161
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


(Can a mod move that whole question to another thread, so it's not a complete threadjack?)

And in other news, is your roofer allowed to subcontract without notifying you? Cause people just showed up to do the gutters, and they're a completely different company that I've never heard of. Is this normal?

Before anyone snaps back at me that I'm complaining too much or micromanaging this guy or what have you-- please remember that I've never done this before. So I'm genuinely ASKING, not complaining! I am surprised by this turn of events, so I'm asking experienced people if I should take my surprise as a warning sign, or if it's a perfectly normal thing to do and my surprise is just because I'm inexperienced.

Edit to add: I've just checked with Consumer Affairs, and this gutter company had a complaint last year that went to court (so they didn't have details, because it was resolved in the courts rather than by Consumer Affairs). I'm feeling really, really nervous here!

Last edited by Hren; 01-10-2013 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:49 AM   #162
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This isn't the proper way to roof, right?


It's kind of normal and there's not really anything you can do about it now except deal with any problems that arise with your roofing company and they will have to deal with the gutter people. You can always file a complaint later against your roofing company, saying they hire incompetent gutter subctontractors.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:09 AM   #163
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Generally speaking, with a general contractor, which sounds like what you have. It is up to the general to use the subs of his choice to accomplish work which is outside his capability.

I just had one af my preferred contractors install a new Landmark Certainteed Asphalt Shingle roof on my home, and he had a separate gutter fabricator come in and roll form all new continuous gutters. Most roofing contractors do not have gutter machines, so it is very common to use a sub to run off gutters. My roofer installed the gutters, he just did not fab them. And getting back to what I alluded to previously. Prior to him doing the roof, we verbally agreed on every aspect because that's the kind of guy he is. We agree, and its as good as done. Hidden hangers 24 inches on center, new fascia cladding, New Downspouts and type, Ice dams in valleys, at rakes and eaves, 4 hangers 6 in on center where I will be able to put a ladder up. etc. etc. etc.

As far as picking the shingle color, That took me all of about one minute, Pewter. Nice and neutral so my home wont be dated by a fad color.

While we are talking color, I would never, never, never recommend a color for architectural metal or a roof color to a client. I generally tell clients to let the women pick the colors, they have a better feel for it. In my case I picked Pewter, explained why to my wife, and she said sounds good. And it looks really really good. Downright Classy.

I feel sorry for you, and I also feel sorry for him. Up to a point. I am fortunate enough to work with people that take a great deal of pride in what they do, and they know how I think. Belt and Suspenders. The funny part of it is that they often try to add training wheels too to upstage me!

You may want to stop the music and go over every aspect of the project with your contractor before going any further. The problem is that what he thinks is good, may not be good at all as far as you are concerned. You may want to develop a list of questions regarding the remaining work, and post them here first, before sitting down with him.

You will probably get some difference in answers even here, but if you use common sense, and think about the answers you will be OK.

One think is for sure, Crisis Management sucks. Have a good plan, and don't change it.
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Last edited by jagans; 01-10-2013 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:15 AM   #164
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I generally tell clients to let the women pick the colors, they have a better feel for it.
Ooh-- wrong answer! 10 points off for you there, bub!

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Generally speaking, with a general contractor, which sounds like what you have. It is up to the general to use the subs of his choice to accomplish work which is outside his capability.
I didn't believe we were hiring a general contractor. His company does roofing, carpentry, and painting, all under the heading of restoration. He did not introduce himself as a GC, nor is GC written anywhere on his materials. I hired a roofer. He has had at least 6 different vehicles at my house since he started, and they have all had his company name on them. The people driving them have been the people doing the work. So, so far, he hasn't behaved like a GC at all. At least, in my understanding of what a GC is.

Last edited by Hren; 01-10-2013 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:26 AM   #165
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So, so far, he hasn't behaved like a GC at all. At least, in my understanding of what a GC is.
It really doesn't matter. There could be a hundred reasons he chose to use that particular contractor to do the gutters. I doubt you signed a contract that said only employees of his company can work on your house. The contract just said he was responsible for making sure it gets done one way or another. If it gets correctly, you have no complaint at all. If it doesn't, you have a complaint with him directly.
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