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Poll: Have you ever experienced ice back-up with EPDM's "Gutter Trim"?
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Have you ever experienced ice back-up with EPDM's "Gutter Trim"?

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Old 04-17-2011, 08:25 PM   #1
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Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof


Please, provide me information on the best way to install a gutter on an EPDM roof that has a 1:12 pitch, so that Ice will not back up under the EPDM roofing. I live in Connecticut and experience harsh winters. I've seen the "Gutter Trim" on-line (by Firestone and others), but it does not seem like this trim will prevent the ice from getting under the EPDM. The trim looks like it will do a nice job with normal liquid rain, but not expanding / backed up ice damming. If you have used a "Gutter Trim", please let me know how it is working for you. Has anyone tried installing the EPDM by extending it down the fascia board and behind the gutter? What was your result over the winter?

Thank You,
Linda

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Old 04-18-2011, 03:50 PM   #2
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Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof


epdm should wrap on to the fasica 3-6 inches, then gutters installed over EPDM/Fasica then drip edge and strip in. Problem solved.

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Old 04-18-2011, 05:53 PM   #3
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Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof


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Originally Posted by Linda135 View Post
Please, provide me information on the best way to install a gutter on an EPDM roof that has a 1:12 pitch, so that Ice will not back up under the EPDM roofing. I live in Connecticut and experience harsh winters. I've seen the "Gutter Trim" on-line (by Firestone and others), but it does not seem like this trim will prevent the ice from getting under the EPDM. The trim looks like it will do a nice job with normal liquid rain, but not expanding / backed up ice damming. If you have used a "Gutter Trim", please let me know how it is working for you. Has anyone tried installing the EPDM by extending it down the fascia board and behind the gutter? What was your result over the winter?

Thank You,
Linda
Do you have any pics on how the detail is now
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:08 AM   #4
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Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof


I currently have a GAF Rubberoid torch down roof, and no gutter at all. It is 17 years old. I've coated and caulked. It is time to try EPDM.
Thanks for any words-of wisdom offered :-). Two photos attahced.
Linda
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Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof-100_3441.jpg   Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof-100_3426.jpg  
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:36 AM   #5
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Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof


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Originally Posted by Linda135 View Post
I currently have a GAF Rubberoid torch down roof, and no gutter at all. It is 17 years old. I've coated and caulked. It is time to try EPDM.
Thanks for any words-of wisdom offered :-). Two photos attahced.
Linda
If you put EPDM on this roof you are going to have a tie in where the ridge shingles are tear them off and up and over that edge. Tear off all the drip edge off 1/2 insulation screwed down fully adhered EPDM run the rubber over the facia that's getting gutter run a bead of water block caulking flap rubber over the edge term bar the rubber. Install gutter and L metal strip in the metal. Install drip edge all around rest of perimater and strip that in with unrenforced membrane
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:52 AM   #6
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Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof


So, if I understand this correctly, I should run the main piece of rubber over the fascia and terminate with term bars. Then, on top of that rubber I should 'seam in' another piece of rubber that will wrap around a batten to form a drip edge (or install a gutter trim), so that it drips into the gutter.

The main piece of rubber running down the fascia will prevent ice back up, and the gutter trim / drip edge will properly direct rain water into the gutter.

Is that the basic idea?

Thanks,
Linda
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:53 AM   #7
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Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof


Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda135 View Post
So, if I understand this correctly, I should run the main piece of rubber over the fascia and terminate with term bars. Then, on top of that rubber I should 'seam in' another piece of rubber that will wrap around a batten to form a drip edge (or install a gutter trim), so that it drips into the gutter.

The main piece of rubber running down the fascia will prevent ice back up, and the gutter trim / drip edge will properly direct rain water into the gutter.

Is that the basic idea?

Thanks,
Linda
I prefer to lap the rubber over onto the fascia, then install a metal roof edge that will extend down slightly into the gutter. The drip edge is then seamed to the rubber. I think maybe we're all saying the same thing, but typically (in my region) either the roof edge or the term bar is used, not both.
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Old 04-19-2011, 04:11 PM   #8
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Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof


There is no problem installing a gutter on a flat roof like an EPDM roof. there are a few ways of going about doing it, I prefer a self flashing box style gutter. An example can be seen here: Commercial Box Gutters The key is that the face of the gutter is 1" lower than the back of the gutter.
Another tip is to have more than one downspout.

However ice back up is a completely different problem that has nothing to do with the type of roof installed. Proper insulation and/or ventilation will remove hot air or prevent hot air from melting the snow from the bottom side. I do alot of work on residential 2-flats in Chicago. These are usually built in the late 1800's early 1900's. They have 1" of insulation in the ceilings. Air fromt he 2nd floor apartment simply passes right out the roof. When we replace these roofs we often will insulate the ceilings we will then ventilate the roof, this is a cold deck design. However if there are no wall vents, which is also common on about 50% of these two flats, we could convert the roof to a warm deck design and put up some kind of rigid insulation board such as PolyIsocyanurate which will limit the transfer of heat from the interior to the exterior. This is a warm deck design and in this case no ventilation is installed.

Both will help reduce the ice back up problems you are having.
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Old 04-19-2011, 04:36 PM   #9
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Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof


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Originally Posted by Linda135 View Post
Please, provide me information on the best way to install a gutter on an EPDM roof that has a 1:12 pitch, so that Ice will not back up under the EPDM roofing. I live in Connecticut and experience harsh winters. I've seen the "Gutter Trim" on-line (by Firestone and others), but it does not seem like this trim will prevent the ice from getting under the EPDM. The trim looks like it will do a nice job with normal liquid rain, but not expanding / backed up ice damming. If you have used a "Gutter Trim", please let me know how it is working for you. Has anyone tried installing the EPDM by extending it down the fascia board and behind the gutter? What was your result over the winter?

Thank You,
Linda
I might be missing something here but first you have to install a EPDM roof in order to detail a gutter with EPDM. I'm sure the roofer who installs the roof should know this. Because if your going to try a EPDM gutter install to this roof there is going to be a bunch more questions your going to need to ask later
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:34 PM   #10
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Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof


Grumpy had a good idea as we have done this alot too since we dont have a gutter machine.

The gutter and drip edge is one piece. The flange will nail/screw to the top of the roof and then that is striped in. The face of the gutter has to be atleast 1" smaller then the back side to allow for gutter hangers. This with the combo of having waterstop between the EPDM and fasica you should never see a Ice dam leak.
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Old 04-23-2011, 05:36 PM   #11
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Reply to SeeYou:I prefer to lap the rubber over onto the fascia, then install a metal roof edge that will extend down slightly into the gutter. The drip edge is then seamed to the rubber. I think maybe we're all saying the same thing, but typically (in my region) either the roof edge or the term bar is used, not both.

Thank you for your reply. I am learning and appreciate any and all information. I am taking it all in. As I'm seeing it, once the EDPM is lapped over the facia, a term bar will secure the end of the EPDM. Then, after the gutter is installed, the drip edge is then seamed to the rubber as a way to secure the drip edge itself. The installation of the drip edge will further secure the EDPM, but its main purpose it to properly direct the water into the gutter. I suppose, with the gutter there it is not likely to have anything lift up the EDPM, but the term bar will secure that edge of the EDPM for sure. It sounds like you've had much success w/o the term bar in this instance. Thank You, Linda
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Old 04-23-2011, 05:46 PM   #12
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Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof


in reply to Grumpy - I greatly appreciate your words-of-wisdom on insulation and ventilation. Some contractors wanted to install 1/2" ISO board (the only reason I could come up with was to try to be the lowest bidder), But I'm calling for a 1" board, and now I will have a better reason to insist on using the 1" board .... to help reduce heat transfer and ice damming. A roof vent may also be an option. Thank you! Linda
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Old 04-23-2011, 05:51 PM   #13
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Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof


Yes, I will have the torch-down roofing removed down to the plywood, install 1" ISO board, EPDM roofing installed under the shingles (which is also getting torn off to the plywood and re-roofed) and the EPDM will go down all 3 sides' fascias. I think I'm starting to 'get' this. Thank you .. .. thank you all!
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Old 04-23-2011, 06:02 PM   #14
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Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof


in reply to 1985gt - Ahhh, I see, the main EPDM piece is adhered to the roof and fascia, then this self-flashing box style gutter is installed and an EPDM seam is installed over the gutter's flashing. This seems like the best, no-fail, no-leak solution yet! Now, where can a normal person like me purchase such a gutter? I have interviewed several roofers, and NONE of them mentioned this type of gutter. You guys are the best!! Anyone interested in a job in Connecticut 06279? Thank you all so very much!! Linda
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Old 04-23-2011, 10:50 PM   #15
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Installing a Gutter on an EPDM Roof


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in reply to Grumpy - I greatly appreciate your words-of-wisdom on insulation and ventilation. Some contractors wanted to install 1/2" ISO board (the only reason I could come up with was to try to be the lowest bidder), But I'm calling for a 1" board, and now I will have a better reason to insist on using the 1" board .... to help reduce heat transfer and ice damming. A roof vent may also be an option. Thank you! Linda
1/2 Iso is not any cheaper then 1". Most of the time on areas like this a 1/2 cover board is fine if there is inuslation in the rafters. If your going to use a 1" Iso you might as well go for an 1 1/2 as the cost isnt that much more. You could also have them used tapered insulation at the eve edges to help with water flow. Once the gutter is installed and the cover tape is applied there is a little bit of a bump there. Not a big deal but kind of a nitpicky thing for us. Also as for the EPDM wraping over the fasica there is no need for a term bar as the Gutter and edge metal will be the "term" bar in this case. The term bar is over kill and will make the gutter stick out some.

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